$25NL TT vs reraise pf

[futuredoc85]

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agree this is a fold, but why did you 3-bet in the first place?

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Doc, I generally 3-bet here too. I feel like TT is too strong of a hand to call with. Also, if villain has AA or KK he'll usually let me know PF, and if he doesn't I will often gain the benefit to taking it with a c-bet. Do you disagree?

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strongly. TT is a great hand and you can get a lot of value with it by calling and playing postflop against a much wider range than someone will call a 3-bet with. The way you're playing it you may as well be 3-betting 22

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You make an interesting point. I'm still much weaker post-flop than I'd like to be, and TT is such a vulnerable hand. I guess raising it allows me to gain momentum, but it certainly doesn't allow me to extract the maximum value for my hand that I might if I knew how to play it better post flop.

Assuming we smooth call pre-flop and villain is a standard 20/10/2...

How do you play when villain c-bets and there is an overcard on the flop? Do you call and re-evaluate the turn? Or do you just play for set value and fit/fold flop?

OTOH, if you wind up with TP on the flop then do you raise villain's c-bet, call and try to take it down on the turn, hope for a cheap showdown, or what?

Thanks for your $.02. I told you I missed you around here! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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definitely not for set value. a one overcard flop ill usually call and re-evaluate on the turn. FWIW if im going to 3-bet a mid pair pf im going to do it vs someone who i can bet/call a lot of flops with 0/1 overcards.

[Cry Me A River]

I think futuredoc makes a really good point, however, it really depends on how you're going to play it postflop and how good you are postflop. My worry would be that a lot of $25NL players are going to wind up playing this for set value. Or overplaying it when they don't. In which case I think 3betting is the easier and more straight-forward way to play it.

Also depends a little bit on villain and your image. Will he put you on AA/KK because you're a nit who never 3bets? Is he capable of folding JJ on an A high flop? How often will he double barrel with overcards?

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

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agree this is a fold, but why did you 3-bet in the first place?

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I had position and a good hand in position, so I wanted to take control of the pot. Is this bad?

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

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agree this is a fold, but why did you 3-bet in the first place?

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Doc, I generally 3-bet here too. I feel like TT is too strong of a hand to call with. Also, if villain has AA or KK he'll usually let me know PF, and if he doesn't I will often gain the benefit to taking it with a c-bet. Do you disagree?

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yes, that is the line I prefer...

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

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agree this is a fold, but why did you 3-bet in the first place?

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Doc, I generally 3-bet here too. I feel like TT is too strong of a hand to call with. Also, if villain has AA or KK he'll usually let me know PF, and if he doesn't I will often gain the benefit to taking it with a c-bet. Do you disagree?

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strongly. TT is a great hand and you can get a lot of value with it by calling and playing postflop against a much wider range than someone will call a 3-bet with. The way you're playing it you may as well be 3-betting 22

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true if he has Ace big. But I get into lrouble on low flops... 9 and under... I definitely need to improve my post flop skills...

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

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agree this is a fold, but why did you 3-bet in the first place?

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Doc, I generally 3-bet here too. I feel like TT is too strong of a hand to call with. Also, if villain has AA or KK he'll usually let me know PF, and if he doesn't I will often gain the benefit to taking it with a c-bet. Do you disagree?

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strongly. TT is a great hand and you can get a lot of value with it by calling and playing postflop against a much wider range than someone will call a 3-bet with. The way you're playing it you may as well be 3-betting 22

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You make an interesting point. I'm still much weaker post-flop than I'd like to be, and TT is such a vulnerable hand. I guess raising it allows me to gain momentum, but it certainly doesn't allow me to extract the maximum value for my hand that I might if I knew how to play it better post flop.

Assuming we smooth call pre-flop and villain is a standard 20/10/2...

How do you play when villain c-bets and there is an overcard on the flop? Do you call and re-evaluate the turn? Or do you just play for set value and fit/fold flop?

OTOH, if you wind up with TP on the flop then do you raise villain's c-bet, call and try to take it down on the turn, hope for a cheap showdown, or what?

Thanks for your $.02. I told you I missed you around here! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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I think that post flop you need to keep pot small w/o a big hand...

[DenDuurs]

I can't believe some nits here advocate not 3betting with TT. It is a strong hand, and against most villains too strong to just setmine with. Also, 3betting gives you the advantage postflop.
Just because you 3bet doesn't mean it is bad to fold to a 4bet.

[Brimstead]

personally, i like to play TT both ways, sometimes for set value, sometimes 3betting. its situational, about a 50/50 split.

[futuredoc85]

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I can't believe some nits here advocate not 3betting with TT.

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I play about 25/21 at fullring and i am the main one arguing against 3-betting it here. Against someone at a full table whos not a maniac im 3-betting 32o way more often than TT. Obv it changes if the original raiser is in LP.

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It is a strong hand, and against most villains too strong to just setmine with.

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agreed, so learn how to do something besides set-mining in once-raised pots.

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Also, 3betting gives you the advantage postflop.

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This is completely wrong. Not only does it make it harder to get value because you are now facing a much narrower range of hands, 3-betting makes stacks smaller and the pot bigger, leaving less room for post-flop play.


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Just because you 3bet doesn't mean it is bad to fold to a 4bet.

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you're right in that we cant stand a 4-bet, so why do you want to 3-bet and suck all the value out of our hand? you arent bet/calling a 592 rainbow flop w/ TT in a RR pot so where is the value in 3-betting exactly?

[futuredoc85]

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personally, i like to play TT both ways, sometimes for set value, sometimes 3betting. its situational, about a 50/50 split.

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WHY ARE THESE THE ONLY 2 OPTIONS???????/