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#12
10-20-2007, 05:58 AM
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Re: nl200 weird 3bet pot spot
[ QUOTE ]
A few things here... 4-bet is too big. Something like 30 accomplishes the same thing (denying decent set odds mainly) and gives you more room. Readless, what are you possibly beating? JJ only? He'd have to be a huge idiot to show up with anything else (remember he has no read on you so he can't say zomg light squeeze), and while that is possible, I'm not so sure I'm ready to assume that. So c/f, weak as it seems, looks like a very reasonable option. As played, bet/call is enormous spew. [/ QUOTE ] are you saying that PF im now only ahead of JJ, or if i bet the flop and he shoves, im only ahead of JJ 
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#13
10-20-2007, 06:07 AM
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Re: nl200 weird 3bet pot spot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A few things here... 4-bet is too big. Something like 30 accomplishes the same thing (denying decent set odds mainly) and gives you more room. Readless, what are you possibly beating? JJ only? He'd have to be a huge idiot to show up with anything else (remember he has no read on you so he can't say zomg light squeeze), and while that is possible, I'm not so sure I'm ready to assume that. So c/f, weak as it seems, looks like a very reasonable option. As played, bet/call is enormous spew. [/ QUOTE ] are you saying that PF im now only ahead of JJ, or if i bet the flop and he shoves, im only ahead of JJ [/ QUOTE ] well pinapple says that assuming a normal 3bet calling range villain has you rushed here. cbeting isnīt good against JJ,QQ,KK,AK range here. and as there is no reason to assume that villain thinks you have been 3beting light thatīs what is range looks like... maybe itīs a bit wider but defenitely not a lot. and if vilain has JJ heīs often going to check behind on the flop. whatīs our plan though if the flop goes check-check? do you still c/f any turn? this seems really weak imo ... do you take a check-check as and indicator that villainīs 3bet calling range was wider than we assumed?
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#14
10-20-2007, 07:10 AM
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Re: nl200 weird 3bet pot spot
what the frig are we checking for? betting flop gives us the most information and protects our hand, bet calling is an option depending on how he shoves, calling his shove is feel based if he does shove, if he just calls the flop bet, check fold the turn
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#16
10-20-2007, 08:31 AM
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Re: nl200 weird 3bet pot spot
PF raise is fine.
This is a good flop for you. I might hold back on an Ace high board, but the King is unlikey to have helped the button. (He overcalled the first raise and then calls your 3bet. I doubt he has AK or KQ.) B/F around 55 or C/C a similar amount (reevaluate turn) are both fine.
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#17
10-20-2007, 12:32 PM
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Re: nl200 weird 3bet pot spot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A few things here... 4-bet is too big. Something like 30 accomplishes the same thing (denying decent set odds mainly) and gives you more room. Readless, what are you possibly beating? JJ only? He'd have to be a huge idiot to show up with anything else (remember he has no read on you so he can't say zomg light squeeze), and while that is possible, I'm not so sure I'm ready to assume that. So c/f, weak as it seems, looks like a very reasonable option. As played, bet/call is enormous spew. [/ QUOTE ] are you saying that PF im now only ahead of JJ, or if i bet the flop and he shoves, im only ahead of JJ [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, I didn't explain that well... JJ is the only hand you are beating that could reasonably put any more money in the pot at any point, except for betting as a pure bluff. So my tendency is to play it WA/WB-ish although there are some draws out there i.e. play to c/c post-flop. Against an unknown, I'd expect this to go check/check, check/bet/call, check/check an awful lot, then turn the cards over and see who wins. I'm leaning towards c/f the flop because I really don't think he's bluffing there very often. Edit: Eh, who knows, bet/fold is likely fine. I'm thinking there are too many cards that hurt us. After getting rivered 1234789890734 times yesterday. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#18
10-20-2007, 12:56 PM
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Re: nl200 weird 3bet pot spot
[ QUOTE ]
This is a good flop for you. I might hold back on an Ace high board, but the King is unlikey to have helped the button. (He overcalled the first raise and then calls your 3bet. I doubt he has AK or KQ.) [/ QUOTE ] Plenty of unknowns play both those hands this way when somebody raises in front of them, and you will never get them off the hand once they hit, of course.
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#19
10-20-2007, 12:59 PM
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Re: nl200 weird 3bet pot spot
Amazed at the number of people with 1000 posts or more who:
a) don't know how to calculate a PSB or b) would like to bet less than pot with the 3rd nuts Preflop is fine. Check the flop. Why bet here? You think he folds a King? Do you think he folds a draw? If he folds, do you think he had > 10% equity? If you bet and he calls (or shoves), his hand is heavily weighted to draws and Kings. Your hand kinda sucks vs. that range. If you check and he bets (or checks), his range is a lot wider.
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#20
10-20-2007, 01:04 PM
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Re: nl200 weird 3bet pot spot
[ QUOTE ]
Amazed at the number of people with 1000 posts or more who: a) don't know how to calculate a PSB or b) would like to bet less than pot with the 3rd nuts [/ QUOTE ] LOL at: a) Using a term like "3rd nuts" preflop b) Thinking a PSB is something magical
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