25PLO top set vs total uknown scary board - Page 2

gordo16 · #1 09-30-2007, 02:21 AM

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This looks like a bet by jtxx without flush redraw. Middle set would certainly check/raise because the assumption (not the truth) when someone reraises preflop is that they have AAxx. I like call and shove any checked turn. Shoving flop is ok, but not great.

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If middle set check/raises the flop then why wouldnt JT without a redraw do the same?

chucky · #2 09-30-2007, 03:51 AM

Because middle set is fine getting allin versus aces on the flop. jt without a redraw knows that aces may check behind with flush draw or even have decent equity to call check raise allin.

gordo16 · #3 09-30-2007, 11:13 AM

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Because middle set is fine getting allin versus aces on the flop. jt without a redraw knows that aces may check behind with flush draw or even have decent equity to call check raise allin.

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My point was, why wouldn't a set use the same reasoning if they put themselves ahead of aces and don't have a flush re-draw?

JanelleBB7 · #4 09-30-2007, 01:58 PM

I don't understand why you guys think this is a shove situation? Maybe if he had the flush draw but most likely he is beaten... doesn't he need at least 3 to 1? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

chucky · #5 09-30-2007, 03:02 PM

It isnt clear that he's beaten. Villian could have middle set/two pair + straight draw/ pair and combo draw. Folding here is nitty.

wazz · #6 09-30-2007, 03:09 PM

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Folding here is nitty.

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It's not nitty, it's just absolutely dreadful.

gordo16 · #7 09-30-2007, 03:10 PM

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It isnt clear that he's beaten. Villian could have middle set/two pair + straight draw/ pair and combo draw. Folding here is nitty.

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I'm just gonna go ahead and say that if you fold this hand in this spot, you are never going to be a winning PLO player. Just because someone bets into you, you can't just automatically put them on the nuts. A call doesn't make any sense here because a lower set may still stubbornly shove a flush card on the turn and then you're left with an ever harder spot. A shove on the flop gives you a little bit of fold equity and I really think that you are shoving with the best hand <75% of the time here.

JanelleBB7 · #8 09-30-2007, 03:15 PM

Okay... I may have a problem then because I would have folded here.. ouch.. harsh. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

sqwisssssss · #9 09-30-2007, 03:29 PM

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Okay... I may have a problem then because I would have folded here.. ouch.. harsh. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

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wow. i admire the heart it takes to fold in that spot but that really is the wrong play. theres a decent chance you are ahead and if not, u have outs to the best full house.

however, i can totally understand folding "bottom" set in this spot. but maybe that would be questionable espeacially at the micro level without reads on villan.

idk......anyone agree with that?

sqwisssssss · #10 09-30-2007, 03:22 PM

i think that pretty much any line in this spot is ok. yur both not very deep. i'd like to have a flush draw to go with the hand too but a soldier cant choose where he wants to fight. its a stack off situation even if u just smooth call the flop because now yur equity becomes huge. might as well shove flop.