OTB versus Big Blind's Check-Raise

[RemyXO]

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everything posted so far is painfully standard, so i don't know what the ramp up stuff is about.

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LOL - why fold/calldown votes are 50/50 then? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[tyler_cracker]

you stopped the post at the turn decision, which is (not coincidentally, i'm sure) where it is no longer painfully standard.

also, babar has been working on me on this hand so i think maybe folding is better. i'm waiting for xhad to come back and really pwn me, but the best argument in babar's cupboard was this: there aren't a lot of hands that villain can semibluff with because all the big [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s are on the board and all the straights just got there.

[BigBadBabar]

remy, you mentioned ramping up like raising kqs otb when folded to you was not standard or something.

tyler, also ax got there [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[tyler_cracker]

yeah but obv i recognize that Ax has outdrawn us and that by itself isn't enough to dissuade me from calling down. it's the coalescence of all the other things that makes a fold look more attractive.

[RemyXO]

No, no, no - everything up to the question about what to do after C/R is very standard. I guess I did not make it clear in my post what I was asking for [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[BigBadBabar]

yea i was just adding the last main thing in my cabinet

and i agree it's the congruence of all the factors, not any one of them. although frankly if i were villain and had a crappy ace, i wouldn't raise there, for fear of getting 3bet/driving off a bluff, so i think the raise is almost stronger than a pair of aces

[Aaron W.]

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8 players

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This makes me more inclined to muck. I think if it were 6-max, it might tilt in favor of calling down. Reads reads reads reads...

[RemyXO]

Hmmm ... combination of very little reads and atrociously bad board tilts things towards folding? I could certainly see that.

I was honestly on the fence on this one. How about this - the table is tight aggro and I do steal quite a bit when I have a chance. Is it worth calling down early in the session to (a) show that I am not raising crap OTB (2) I am willing to call down with middle pair, so don't try to get funny with me later on, mister Big Blind.
Is it slightly -EV in this hand but gives me positive expectation in future hands?

[Aaron W.]

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Hmmm ... combination of very little reads and atrociously bad board tilts things towards folding? I could certainly see that.

I was honestly on the fence on this one. How about this - the table is tight aggro and I do steal quite a bit when I have a chance. Is it worth calling down early in the session to (a) show that I am not raising crap OTB (2) I am willing to call down with middle pair, so don't try to get funny with me later on, mister Big Blind.
Is it slightly -EV in this hand but gives me positive expectation in future hands?

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I don't tend to think so, especially because I never show my hand online, and so all he will see is call... muck... And most players will never look at the HH, so for all they know you had a small pocket pair or Q-high. You also have to figure out whether your opponents are paying enough attention so that you actually have an image to develop.

[RemyXO]

I think we are always giving too little credit to the villains in Micros. That's maybe fine at softer sites and nanolimits, but going to FullTilt .5/1 and especially 1/2, I am seeing a lot of decent players, which ARE paying attention. Lots of multitablers. It's safe to assume most of them have PAHUD up and running.

I always muck, LDO, but in a HU hand like this, I think a lot of players would actually go and look up HH if they don't have PAHUD. Just cause I will be OTB when he's in the blinds for the entire session!

He actually commented in the chat box that "it's good to know you would call down with that trash" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]