nut-straight draw on monotone board

[Xylocain]

I think checking this flop is a large mistake.

The pot is big, we are representing at least over cards which often includes A or K of [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Baby [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] fold to a bet, our non [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] straight outs are clean and I would give us 2-3 outs for our overcards. Also people do a lot of folding of middle pair (with K or Q kicker) on monotone boards.

?

[Riku]

"Baby [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] fold to a bet, our non straight outs are clean and I would give us 2-3 outs for our overcards. Also people do a lot of folding of middle pair (with K or Q kicker) on monotone boards."

Im sorry, but what planet are you from ?

[Xylocain]

I'm not sure, are you calling with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3? I think my RIO on K8 hurts to much, I think 1 outs per overcard is OK? Where did the[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] go in non-[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] straight outs?

Edit I remember now, the planet where Finland is not olympic champions in ice-hockey

[Riku]

It was left out accidently.

Anyway, no, i wouldn't call, but im not them, am i ? Shortly put, i think most players caught something and they're not folding. So i don't mind the check here.

[Fantam]

I find the flop interesting.

I would not have made a c-bet as I doubt whether you would have folded anyone with a high [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], such as A or K. Even the Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] might not fold as they had a gut-shot draw, one of which is to a straight flush.

So I would have preferred to check/call with your 8 decent outs to improve to a non [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]straight or pair a non [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K.

Once you improved to TPGK, I would have bet the turn as you may have just made the best hand, and you still had a draw to the non [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] straight.

I assume that you got distracted on the river. Meh, it happens.

[Fadook]

[ QUOTE ]
It was left out accidently.

Anyway, no, i wouldn't call, but im not them, am i ? Shortly put, i think most players caught something and they're not folding. So i don't mind the check here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yah, I don't get the point of betting the flop. We probably don't have the best hand right now, little meaningful fold equity, and our outs are dirty.

[jeanbaptiste36]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting this flop is good, but it's not a significantly better play than checking. You're not too likely to have the best hand, there are tons of draws, and you're OOP.

You've really got to bet this turn to prevent a free card by a diamond, especially after it appears you've turned the best hand.

The river fold isn't very smart.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still no entirely positive on betting the flop. I have about 7-8 outs. There's no edge to push that I can see except cleaning the overs a little from non-diamond middle/bottom-pair with KQ-kicker.

I know. I played horrible on the river. The whole session. Haven't been taking the game too seriously lately.

[Riku]

It's probably close. But fix the bigger leak first (hint hint), then start fixing the small ones :-)

[tyler_cracker]

checking is ok, but i like prefer for some of the reasons xylocain laid out (baby diamonds and 8x can fold). we're also calling a bet anyway so we can go ahead and bet ourselves and reap the benefits therein.

[jeanbaptiste36]

That's a good point. We are calling anyway so we can just as well bet.
I think I forgot something too. Like Aaron said: we *MIGHT* be the best here on the flop. A 10% chance of that takes it to EV+land.