KK on not safestest board deepish 5/10

[ahnuld]

If he puts me on a range of QQ+ AK then JJ is a fold preflop

[ipokeder]

i check this but i check a lot of flops in rr'd pots, a spot like this imo is almost completely dependent on metagame

if you bet all yo shiet then bet

[Slider]

[ QUOTE ]
If he puts me on a range of QQ+ AK then JJ is a fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to nitpick or anything, but you said you had been 4 betting deep. Do you think he suspects this?

I probably do something unconventional like shove or bet 200$.

[ahnuld]

yeah but every time only good hands have been shown down and my stats are pretty tight so if he isnt observant and just bases his opinion on players based off stats...he wouldnt realize I could ever have anything but a strong range. I mean its entirely possible but it should only be half as likely as KK AA QQ

[john kane]

given his range is QQ+ AK maybe AQ, your only ahead of one of those (edit: that your getting action with), so I don't see any reason to commit any more chips. you wanted a different flop, this has hit his range perfectly, so i don't see any reason not to try check this down.

you gambled that he would fold pf or you would hit a good flop for his range. you have done neither, so i don't see why you'd bet.

[john kane]

and this is clearly down to what his view of your range is. if he thinks it is wider than just QQ+AQ+ (say throw in 68s edit: really bad exmaple of a 'throw in' given 68 comes on flop, so throw in 56s etc) then i'd be tempted to overbet this as you could well get calls by TT,JJ,AQ, but if his view of your range is QQ+AQ+ then betting seems a very bad option.

[Slider]

[ QUOTE ]
and this is clearly down to what his view of your range is. if he thinks it is wider than just QQ+AQ+ (say throw in 68s edit: really bad exmaple of a 'throw in' given 68 comes on flop, so throw in 56s etc) then i'd be tempted to overbet this as you could well get calls by TT,JJ,AQ, but if his view of your range is QQ+AQ+ then betting seems a very bad option.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly why over betting came up in my mind because I thought that the villain thought Ahnulds opening range was wide (but then again I just posted in another thread where I thought an overbet might be a good idea)

[ocklind]

I think it's safe to assume villain holds QQ+ or AK. Vs this range you are 57%, I dont think though AK will make a move on this flop if you bet, since you 4-bet, therefore only a hand that beats you will play along if you bet?

I like a check behind since he only has 3-outs if he's behind, and you give him the chance to bluff.

Check, then depending on the card you might wanna shove the turn if he bets a spade turn. If no spade comes I can just call a bet here, river also.

[Morrek]

bet like 444?

[Go_Blue88]

ahnuld--

i agree with what you're saying.

that said, once i get 25% of my stack in pf, i'd have a hard time getting away from my hand.

i mean even if you check, i doubt you get away from it on the turn. it seems to me that checking just buys you some time to get more info (eg if a Q hits the turn er something, you can see how he reacts/ QQ is less probable).