God's Warriors (CNN)

[twoblacknines]

I think all the wars have more to do with human nature than religion. Sure, they use religion now as an excuse to kill each other but if religion didn't exist then they would find some other disagreement to kill each other over (I love the south park where in the future religion is gone, but there are 2 groups of atheist and they fight each other over what they should be called).

It was scary hearing the one guy who talk who was the christian who supported Israel. When he started talking about how we should launch a pre-emptive strike on Iran in the future....

I hope to hell Americans wake up and if we (electoral college) elect another republican I think it will be disasterous.

[bluesbassman]

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embracing rationality in that respect would be a strong necessary, but not sufficient condition, to end religious motivated violence.

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Rationality didn't work for the Khmer Rouge, Stalin, or the Jacobins. Rationality underlay Nazi master race science -- some of which they got from US researchers.



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If you actually think communism and Nazism reflect rational philosophies and are an example of adherence to reason... then there is nothing I can say to you. Quite scary.

Suffice to say religion isn't by only manifestation of irrationality.

[David Sklansky]

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I've only watched the Jewish episode so far. For those of us who do not suffer from the God delusion, it's pretty scary to actually watch these lunatics spout their nonsense, and what crazy stuff they are willing to do as justified by their irrational faith.


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My guess is that if you could get Jews and Muslims to return to rationality (the universe popped up out of nothing for no reason) they would immediately lay down their weapons, hug each other like brothers, and break bread together.

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Simple question. Do Christians think Jews and Muslims ideas about God etc are as irrational as atheists would consider them?

[NotReady]

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Simple question. Do Christians think Jews and Muslims ideas about God etc are as irrational as atheists would consider them?


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From what I understand the Muslim's Allah is truly arbitrary. Jews and Christians have much the same ideas about God in general, the main differences obviously coming from the New Testament.

[David Sklansky]

So yes for Muslims and no for Jews?

Are there not serious,intelligent Muslim scholars who have deeply studied their religion as well as others and submit that it is the other religions that are less rational? Perhaps even adding the comment that if they thought otherwise, they would convert?

[Lestat]

<font color="blue">Simple question. Do Christians think Jews and Muslims ideas about God etc are as irrational as atheists would consider them? </font>

I recently asked the same question of NR. I would think he should have a much bigger problem with a Muslim than with an atheist. An atheist is someone who simply cannot at all conceive of this entity that NR sees with such precise attributes. But a Muslim is not only capable of conceiving, he goes on to posit an entirely different set of conceptual circumstances around this entity than what NR conceives. This (in my opinion) is a much wider disparity than exists between himself and any atheist. Certainly farther apart than with an agnostic (which is really what a rational atheist is).

[Lestat]

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So yes for Muslims and no for Jews?

Are there not serious,intelligent Muslim scholars who have deeply studied their religion as well as others and submit that it is the other religions that are less rational? Perhaps even adding the comment that if they thought otherwise, they would convert?

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Why isn't his difference with Jews (who recognize the same God and the same OT), not even more serious?

If I had never studied or thought about poker before, perhaps you could forgive me if I disagreed with you about it ever being correct to bluff raise my opponent on the turn holding a small pair and a flush draw. But if I had been studying the game for years (even if not as long as you), you should have little patience with me for not grasping this conceptual nuance of the game.

[Bill Haywood]

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If you actually think communism and Nazism reflect rational philosophies and are an example of adherence to reason... then there is nothing I can say to you. Quite scary.

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You are using definitions to excuse rationalist embarrassments -- that is cheating. I can play the same game. All the violence you attribute to religion -- that's not real religion, it's false doctrine. If it is violent and ugly, it is not religion.

Nazis and communists appealed to all sorts of audiences, including some based purely on rationalism. Master race, eugenics, that was the mainstream science of the day, here as well is in Germany. Communism is very insistent that it is rigorously based on reason, what is called "the science of Marxism-Leninism." When they make their arguments, they appeal to truth and logic as the ultimate arbitrators. Just because something is wrong and destructive does not mean it is not rational.

Take the stick out of your butt. And you skipped the Neocons' philosophy of naked power.

[Bill Haywood]

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a Muslim ... goes on to posit an entirely different set of conceptual circumstances around this entity than what [Jews or Christiants] NR conceives.

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I don't see what the significant differences are, all the basics are same. Monotheism, judgment, epic struggle between good and evil, eternal life. They are all flavors of Judaism, all three trace their lineages to Abraham.

Reminds me of an Emo Phillips joke:

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I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said 'Stop! don't do it!' 'Why shouldn't I?' he said. I said, 'Well, there's so much to live for!' He said, 'Like what?' I said, 'Well...are you religious or atheist?' He said, 'Religious.' I said, 'Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?' He said, 'Christian.' I said, 'Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?' He said, 'Protestant.' I said, 'Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?' He said, 'Baptist!' I said, 'Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist church of god or Baptist church of the lord?' He said, 'Baptist church of god!' I said, 'Me too! Are you original Baptist church of god, or are you reformed Baptist church of god?' He said, 'Reformed Baptist church of god!' I said, 'Me too! Are you reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?' He said, 'Reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!' I said, 'Die, heretic scum,' and pushed him off.

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[tpir]

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Nazis and communists appealed to all sorts of audiences, including some based purely on rationalism. Master race, eugenics, that was the mainstream science of the day, here as well is in Germany. Communism is very insistent that it is rigorously based on reason, what is called "the science of Marxism-Leninism." When they make their arguments, they appeal to truth and logic as the ultimate arbitrators. Just because something is wrong and destructive does not mean it is not rational.

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Just because nutjobs claim they are using science and logic doesn't meant they got it right. Rationality isn't a title you just ascribe to yourself. The groups you cite were irrational and twisted "science" to fit their ideology.