What would be your idea of a perfect society?

[valenzuela]

OP, youre flaw is that youre arbitraraly choosing a set of ppl.
Ask yourself the same question but with American families, mexican families and malasyans over 35 that wear sandals.

[tolbiny]

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Beyond that, there would be a basic public service requirement -- determined by what is necessary to maintain the basic health, education and welfare of the community.

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You do realize that slavery ended in most countries because people who are forced to work do a pretty lousy job overall, right? You have read a history book before, right?

[QuadsOverQuads]

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You do realize that slavery ended in most countries because people who are forced to work do a pretty lousy job overall, right? You have read a history book before, right?

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That is a sleazy and dishonest attack, and you know it.

Slave laborers are human beings who are bought and sold as property, and disposed of at the whim of an "owner". Their lives are not their own, their labor is not their own. Read a history book yourself if you need some examples.

To equate that with free people who still have (*gasp*) civic responsibilities -- in order to provide for their families -- is pure idiocy.


q/q

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You do realize that slavery ended in most countries because people who are forced to work do a pretty lousy job overall, right? You have read a history book before, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a sleazy and dishonest attack, and you know it.

Slave laborers are human beings who are bought and sold as property, and disposed of at the whim of an "owner". Their lives are not their own, their labor is not their own. Read a history book yourself if you need some examples.

To equate that with free people who still have (*gasp*) civic responsibilities -- in order to provide for their families -- is pure idiocy.


q/q

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a point only if your perfect society people volunteer for their civic duty. The second you force people to work against their will you have the very definition of slavery. Now would this slavery be somewhat less disgusting because you are only forcing them to lose x% of their life instead of 100%, but that, to quote Rothbard, is a difference only in scale, not in kind.

[QuadsOverQuads]

Let me simplify this:

Whoever chooses not to contribute to the upkeep of their community is free to do so -- but, since they choose not to contribute, they will also receive nothing from it.

Fair enough?

They are, of course, free to leave and make their living shining shoes in the perfect Murray Rothbard state.


q/q

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]

Let me simplify this:

Whoever chooses not to contribute to the upkeep of their community is free to do so -- but, since they choose not to contribute, they will also receive nothing from it.

Fair enough?

They are, of course, free to leave and make their living shining shoes in the perfect Murray Rothbard state.


q/q

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I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where you explained who got to determine who had to give what to the community, who got to own the land and where they got to file their complaint form before they were taken off to the gulag.

[pokerbobo]

[ QUOTE ]

Let me simplify this:

Whoever chooses not to contribute to the upkeep of their community is free to do so -- but, since they choose not to contribute, they will also receive nothing from it.

Fair enough?

They are, of course, free to leave and make their living shining shoes in the perfect Murray Rothbard state.


q/q

[/ QUOTE ]

If they are free to leave that would make them homeless wouldn't it? Will they still be eligible for food if they "choose" not to participate?

[QuadsOverQuads]

tolbiny:

Your responses so far in this thread have been nothing but relentless personal attacks.

You have accused me of supporting human slavery and, now, "gulags". I assume you will next accuse me of membership in the Communist Party, or whatever else you think will rally the drooling right wing to your side. I sincerely hope you are not stupid enough to actually believe this nonsense, but, either way, I'm quite clear that nobody else here is.

Either way, you clearly cannot support your views, and you're clearly just going to attack me endlessly instead, so I see no point in continuing a discussion that can only result in me wasting more of my time on someone who hasn't got a clue and isn't likely to get one anytime soon.

Best of luck to you, we're done here.


q/q

[tolbiny]

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Either way, you clearly cannot support your views, and you're clearly just going to attack me endlessly instead

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Really? I defined slavery as forcing someone to work for someone else. I even gave you an out where you could just claim that in your perfect society everyone wanted to do their community service. My personal attack against you consisted of asking if you understood why slavery ended in the majority of "civilized" countries.

[pokerbobo]

You state this:

No rent, no landlords, no homelessness, and the real estate speculators can kiss my ass.

but say you are free to leave.... does that not make you homeless? (by the way... who gets the oceanfront property?)

And you state this:

That's the baseline -- everyone has a home, food for their kids, decent healthcare and a liveable community, and they have some basic civic responsibilities to go with it.

Do I get to eat, get medicine, schools etc if I choose to opt out of Utopia? Or am I just a wandering homeless man who will starve in the streets?