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#11
07-31-2007, 03:09 PM
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Re: Staring down a turn raise
[ QUOTE ]
Why not check the turn? [/ QUOTE ] * He could be drawing to a flush and be smart enough to take a free card * He could have a hand like 99 and decide to play for showdown for one bet or less by checking behind instead of risking two bets by betting twice * He could have a hand like 99 and is just going to fold to my bet (which is fine) * He could have taken a loose flop peel with a hand like QJ with a backdoor flush draw and backdoor striaght draw and will now fold (which is fine) Alternatively: * I don't have enough reason to believe that I don't have the best hand at this moment. 
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#12
07-31-2007, 03:11 PM
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Re: Staring down a turn raise
Aggressive players don't check (strong) draws when they could have folding equity, at least not often. I think this is a reasonable spot to check the turn, altough betting isn't bad either (there are obviously worse hands calling).
As for calling down this raise. It depends on how aggressive your opponent is. If you think he can be semibluffing a flushdraw here or free showdown raising a 6 i would call.
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#14
07-31-2007, 03:19 PM
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Re: Staring down a turn raise
* He could be drawing to a flush and be smart enough to take a free card
Okay fair enough. It is tough to prove either way but strong players will almost always bet here. * He could have a hand like 99 and decide to play for showdown for one bet or less by checking behind instead of risking two bets by betting twice It is inconsistant to think that he will check both draws and hands like 99. He will probably check one or the other but not both. I don't really care if he does since he will call the river and that is much better then having him fold to a turn bet. * He could have taken a loose flop peel with a hand like QJ with a backdoor flush draw and backdoor striaght draw and will now fold (which is fine) Decent to strong players don't tend to do this but this is probably a good spot for it. A K64 board is basically the ideal flop for a blind to take a shot at and you should probably bet this flop with ATC. It isn't about what you have rather you have to figure out when other people figure to have nothing. He might understand this and float the flop but then why are you considering a bet/fold on the turn? If you check he is gonna bet and if you bet he is gonna raise a good % of the time. Why would you bet/fold against someone who might be BSing you? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] * I don't have enough reason to believe that I don't have the best hand at this moment. This isn't a very good reason to bet. It isn't like he can have K3 or Q6 and will automatically call down with any part of the board. Against LPP's this is a clear bet. e: Peeling the flop with QJ is super fishy. Floating is fine but this guy isn't any kind of decent if he calls the flop and folds the turn with QJ.
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#15
07-31-2007, 03:40 PM
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Re: Staring down a turn raise
[ QUOTE ]
* He could be drawing to a flush and be smart enough to take a free card Okay fair enough. It is tough to prove either way but strong players will almost always bet here. * He could have a hand like 99 and decide to play for showdown for one bet or less by checking behind instead of risking two bets by betting twice It is inconsistant to think that he will check both draws and hands like 99. He will probably check one or the other but not both. I don't really care if he does since he will call the river and that is much better then having him fold to a turn bet. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not saying he will check both. I'm saying that he might check one or he might check the other. The problem is that I don't know what he's checking. [ QUOTE ] * He could have taken a loose flop peel with a hand like QJ with a backdoor flush draw and backdoor striaght draw and will now fold (which is fine) Decent to strong players don't tend to do this but this is probably a good spot for it. A K64 board is basically the ideal flop for a blind to take a shot at and you should probably bet this flop with ATC. It isn't about what you have rather you have to figure out when other people figure to have nothing. He might understand this and float the flop but then why are you considering a check/fold on the turn? If you check he is gonna bet and if you bet he is gonna raise a good % of the time. Why would you bet/fold against someone who might be BSing you? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] You're assuming a fairly aggressive style for a "decent to solid" player. If I peeled this flop with a hand like that QJ with a BDFD, I'm not necessarily looking to auto-raise the turn. If I called with one of those hands, I might semibluff raise if I picked up a draw and call down if I improve to a pair, and otherwise just get out of the way. It's not a terrible peel if he thinks I'm capable of betting a hand like 6x, which would mean that he has a likely 6 full pair outs plus some backdoor outs to give him odds to peel one off. [ QUOTE ] * I don't have enough reason to believe that I don't have the best hand at this moment. This isn't a very good reason to bet. It isn't like he can have K3 or Q6 and will automatically call down with any part of the board. Against LPP's this is a clear bet. e: Peeling the flop with QJ is super fishy. Floating is fine but this guy isn't any kind of decent if he calls the flop and folds the turn with QJ. [/ QUOTE ] See above.
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#16
07-31-2007, 03:41 PM
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Re: Staring down a turn raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Xhad Theorem says fold. You beat nothing except K9, and that'll be a chop a good deal of the time. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think this Xhad's theorem. I thought that had something to do with someone betting/raising and then suddenly checking. [/ QUOTE ] I swear "Xhad theorem" means something different every time I've heard it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But yeah the kind of line I was talking about with that post would be like if you overlimped after some limpers and SB pfr, checkcalled that flop and then c/r the turn.
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#18
08-01-2007, 01:24 AM
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Re: Staring down a turn raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You're assuming a fairly aggressive style for a "decent to solid" player. [/ QUOTE ] So are you, if you're thinking about calling this. [/ QUOTE ] Nope. I mucked and followed the "if you think you should fold" rule... it's not really a rule, but a darn good suggestion after you have a decent amount of experience and instincts.
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#19
08-01-2007, 05:58 AM
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Re: Staring down a turn raise
Reads are everything here. That said I think u should typically call down (I have no idea how players play in this game though). This could be a FD, or a smaller K if he limped Kxs. He may also attemp a free showdown raise with 55, A6s or someting.
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