AQ with interesting flop 4/180

[BlueEcho]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, the villain bet t500 the flop and the hero call. What the value here? He could be betting here with AK-A8, KQ-KJ, QJ, or any pocket pair, trying to take the pot dow.

I think the hero have to bet this flop, trying to see where he is playing against..

[/ QUOTE ]

This might be the best way to answer your question using the range you gave:


Board: Ac Ks Th
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 69.362% 64.08% 05.28% 88180 7269.00 { AhQc }
Hand 1: 30.638% 25.36% 05.28% 34892 7269.00 { 22+, A8s+, KJs+, QJs, A8o+, KJo+, QJo }

Checking makes the villian bet with worse hands. Betting only gets called or raised by better hands, all others fold. The point "I think" is that we are letting the villian play closer to perfect by betting.

[Agrecisio]

I understand now your point.

[ChipSpeak]

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The point "I think" is that we are letting the villian play closer to perfect by betting.

[/ QUOTE ]
bingo.

[alwardc4]

I like checking this flop as well, but with the intention of a crai. I would have to put my panties on before taking a check/call then check/fold line. Its a 4/180. He probably won't bet the flop with a monster. Most players like to slow play. So if he bets the flop, he often has AJ or KQ or Ax or whatever. You may run into KT or AT and have some outs.

[BlueEcho]

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I like checking this flop as well, but with the intention of a crai. I would have to put my panties on before taking a check/call then check/fold line. Its a 4/180. He probably won't bet the flop with a monster. Most players like to slow play. So if he bets the flop, he often has AJ or KQ or Ax or whatever. You may run into KT or AT and have some outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't necessarily dislike this line but once again it allows villian to play closer to perfect against us. This really robs our AQ of any value we might get here.

[Sherman]

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I like checking this flop as well, but with the intention of a crai. I would have to put my panties on before taking a check/call then check/fold line. Its a 4/180. He probably won't bet the flop with a monster. Most players like to slow play. So if he bets the flop, he often has AJ or KQ or Ax or whatever. You may run into KT or AT and have some outs.

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Well I don't like check/raising here period. What are we trying to accomplish with a check/raise?

I usually check/raise for specific reasons:
1) I think my opponent has a hand with some number of outs. I am OOP and if I bet, he will just fold. If I check, he will c-bet and I can raise to price him out of seeing his outs. Thus, I make $ from his c-bet and I protect my hand against his draw.

2) I have a strong hand but I can't quite get enough $ into the pot by only betting because my opponent will likely only call. However, he will likely bet if I check to him. When he bets, I raise all-in and because he is now pot-committed he will have to call my all-in that he would have folded had I shoved.

Those are just a couple, I'm sure there are more but you get the idea.

Anyhow, I don't see how check/raising is very useful in this spot. Our opponent doesn't have many outs if he is behind and we probably only have 3 outs if we are behind. Thus, all check/raising does is tell our opponent how to play against us and get us information (at a high price). If our opponent shoves after our check/raise we have to fold and if he folds, we probably had the best hand anyway and he was way behind.

So yeah...I think check/raising sucks. Although it is better than leading out.

[alwardc4]

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[ QUOTE ]
I like checking this flop as well, but with the intention of a crai. I would have to put my panties on before taking a check/call then check/fold line. Its a 4/180. He probably won't bet the flop with a monster. Most players like to slow play. So if he bets the flop, he often has AJ or KQ or Ax or whatever. You may run into KT or AT and have some outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I don't like check/raising here period. What are we trying to accomplish with a check/raise?

I usually check/raise for specific reasons:
1) I think my opponent has a hand with some number of outs. I am OOP and if I bet, he will just fold. If I check, he will c-bet and I can raise to price him out of seeing his outs. Thus, I make $ from his c-bet and I protect my hand against his draw.

2) I have a strong hand but I can't quite get enough $ into the pot by only betting because my opponent will likely only call. However, he will likely bet if I check to him. When he bets, I raise all-in and because he is now pot-committed he will have to call my all-in that he would have folded had I shoved.

Those are just a couple, I'm sure there are more but you get the idea.

Anyhow, I don't see how check/raising is very useful in this spot. Our opponent doesn't have many outs if he is behind and we probably only have 3 outs if we are behind. Thus, all check/raising does is tell our opponent how to play against us and get us information (at a high price). If our opponent shoves after our check/raise we have to fold and if he folds, we probably had the best hand anyway and he was way behind.

So yeah...I think check/raising sucks. Although it is better than leading out.

[/ QUOTE ]


Um, Check/raising accomplishes #2. If villain bets with AJ, KQ, KJ, or even Ax, do you really think a typical $4 player is laying it down? He would probably be getting around 2:1 or 3:2. He doesn't know he only has three with some of those holdings. Hell, its a $4, he may just think "I can't fold this, I have top pair!"

Lets say we check call a bet of 500 on the flop. What do plan on doing on the turn? Check/call all the way down? I don't think that gets more value often enough, but it will give free cards. Do you plan on check/folding the turn. I don't like that because we are then we are wasting ~25% of our stack for incomplete info. We should be trying to double up with this. In fact, I think I like leading more than check/call.

[Sherman]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like checking this flop as well, but with the intention of a crai. I would have to put my panties on before taking a check/call then check/fold line. Its a 4/180. He probably won't bet the flop with a monster. Most players like to slow play. So if he bets the flop, he often has AJ or KQ or Ax or whatever. You may run into KT or AT and have some outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I don't like check/raising here period. What are we trying to accomplish with a check/raise?

I usually check/raise for specific reasons:
1) I think my opponent has a hand with some number of outs. I am OOP and if I bet, he will just fold. If I check, he will c-bet and I can raise to price him out of seeing his outs. Thus, I make $ from his c-bet and I protect my hand against his draw.

2) I have a strong hand but I can't quite get enough $ into the pot by only betting because my opponent will likely only call. However, he will likely bet if I check to him. When he bets, I raise all-in and because he is now pot-committed he will have to call my all-in that he would have folded had I shoved.

Those are just a couple, I'm sure there are more but you get the idea.

Anyhow, I don't see how check/raising is very useful in this spot. Our opponent doesn't have many outs if he is behind and we probably only have 3 outs if we are behind. Thus, all check/raising does is tell our opponent how to play against us and get us information (at a high price). If our opponent shoves after our check/raise we have to fold and if he folds, we probably had the best hand anyway and he was way behind.

So yeah...I think check/raising sucks. Although it is better than leading out.

[/ QUOTE ]


Um, Check/raising accomplishes #2. If villain bets with AJ, KQ, KJ, or even Ax, do you really think a typical $4 player is laying it down? He would probably be getting around 2:1 or 3:2. He doesn't know he only has three with some of those holdings. Hell, its a $4, he may just think "I can't fold this, I have top pair!"

Lets say we check call a bet of 500 on the flop. What do plan on doing on the turn? Check/call all the way down? I don't think that gets more value often enough, but it will give free cards. Do you plan on check/folding the turn. I don't like that because we are then we are wasting ~25% of our stack for incomplete info. We should be trying to double up with this. In fact, I think I like leading more than check/call.

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OK.

[BlueEcho]

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In fact, I think I like leading more than check/call.

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Then what about after you are reraised here? After the fact I realized that with this hand, on this flop it was in my best interest to get to showdown cheaply. My hand also has value against a wider range than one that plays back at me. So check/call accomplishes both things.

[Coz]

I see that most of the time in these tourneys people are re-raising with AK as opposed to just calling so I would put a small percentage next to that hand. I think that he may have something like Ax, AT, QT, QJ, AJ, KQ, or TT.

You are a pretty big fav against Ax, QT, AJ, KJ, and KQ.
You are a dog to AT, QJ, KT, and TT. I think TT is unlikley as well because I think it would have prompted a re-raise. If he had a hand like QJ, I think he probably would have checked it. I think his raise is an info raise, he probably has an ace or middle pair with a straight draw and wants to see whether his kicker is good. If this was me I would probably lead the flop and shove over his re-raise. The only hand that I think has you beat at this point that would have probably taken villians line is KT.

If he was deeper I would probably reccomend a fold and wait for a better spot, but in a few hands antes are going to start coming in and he will have an M of 10. I would probably shove.