200NL, bet-shove TPTK? - Page 2

schlimazel · #11 07-09-2007, 10:08 AM

are you pushing as a bluff or to get value from weaker hands? either way, this line sucks.

check the flop to start.

Sphere99991 · #12 07-09-2007, 10:17 AM

I dunno guys, villain's AF is 7. That's insane high... like bet/raise always and call never levels. He's raising from CO so KJ/QJ/JT are certainly in his range as are hands like TT-88 which he might raise with if he doesn't believe you... or something like Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or Kx[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I think shove is +EV here against this villain. Why do you automatically assume has has an overpair here always?

Sphere99991 · #13 07-09-2007, 10:22 AM

Consider this from villain's perspective too. I see hero's bet here a lot as trying to get a cheap turn with a flush draw. So I think villain's raise may easily indicate this range: 88+, AJ, KJ, QJ, JT, Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Kx[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]... against which we're 2-1.

Jay Riall · #14 07-09-2007, 11:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Then I realized it really really blows to give an aggro TAG the power of position. If I check-call and check the turn, I then play a guessing game OOP while my hand is face up as {Jx, 33-TT}.

[/ QUOTE ]

So how does this make check/calling down bad? Who cares if your hand is face up as this range? This is also unavoidable given the preflop play - AJ is pretty much at the top of your range no matter what you do postflop. Since he views your range as a midpair or a marginal tp hand, why not take advantage of this if you think he is capable of bluffing?

Jay Riall · #15 07-09-2007, 11:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I can do the same by just c-r and calling a shove, though. A c-r on this flop looks so FOS that it might just get him to shove a weaker J over me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is ok vs the right villain. It might also encourage him to go broke with TT or something putting you on a flush draw or air.

Redgrape · #16 07-09-2007, 01:49 PM

I don't think there are many good ways to play this hand in which you're completely satisfied. You may want to just bet/fold the flop because of how ridiculously marginal this entire hand will be.