the agressive style when to play with position

[Zeldark]

Don't jam this into the WA/WB category. That's used so much they should rename it.

There's plenty of catching up that can be done here, including villain holding 2 overcards in question.

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have JJ instead of TT whould you still play it WA/WB? (at flop is blank insted of J)

[/ QUOTE ]

are you saying we have JJ and a Q falls but we don't hit out set. Yes I would still call the flop and turn. It's the preflop cap that makes me put an unknown villian on a pretty short range (JJ+, AK, and sometimes AQs). I want him to keep betting with unimproved overs, and don't want to get 3 bet when he has a higher pair. Hence I call flop and turn bet/folding if I am checked too, and folding to a bet if a K, A, or fourth diamond falls. Using my position to play the best I can with the info I have.

[Montrealcorp]

thats what i though about the catching up thing u speak off zeldar.
i didn t bring the WA/WB concept, just was answering fantam.but do u think i made a mistake on flop zeldar,by raising trying represent somehting i didn t have since i felt the pot was fairly big for HU and i was scared of over cards calling ?

nomad,i guess im wrong then to try to shut down someone holding 2 high cards.i seriously though by folding he made a mistake,since he had the right odds to call if he knew the hand i had with 2 high cards..
and if its true he had the right pot odds to call,i dont get why u want him to stay in the hand and try to outdraw me???since is correct to stay in and wrong to fold...?

i just tought by raising the flop i made a hand to fold on turn when he would of had the right odds to call to outdrew me?

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
thats what i though about the catching up thing u speak off zeldar.
i didn t bring the WA/WB concept, just was aswering fantam.but do u think i made a mistake on flop zeldar,by raising trying represent somehting i didn t have since i felt the pot was fairly big for HU and i was scared of over cards calling ?

[/ QUOTE ]

At these stakes you need to let go of 3rd level thinking. Most of your opponents are not thinking about what hands your line represents most of them are thinking "pretty cards". Don't try to trick them, just play good solid poker.

[Zeldark]

This is a situation where we may have the best hand, where he could outdraw us if we do, and his response will likely define his hand. Raising is value/protecting/information all at the same time. There are likely more hands that he missed completely with but are still drawing against us than there are hands that have us crushed. I am all for the flop raise though responding to the 3-bet gets more complicated.

And for what it's worth, Zel, Zelda, Zeldark, Z (though I think somehow that's linked to another player), even Zeld is cool.
Zeldar? Not so much. You can see the K right? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Montrealcorp]

well,i was just talking about the pot odds of high cards here,i want him to fold high cards with the pot odds there,i dont want to see river letting him a chance to beat me there,thats why i raise flop,i dont see 3rd level thinking here...
i just dont see how u just want him to bet into u on turn by just calling on flop so he can see the river with the right pot odds to beat u by hitting an A or K.

LOL ZELDARK. sorry mate probably typo

[JJack]

I thought what should I do when i have position, PF was capped and aggresor makes flop bet, and flop is like 9 rag rag rainbow/flush
1)
a)I do protect/value check-r and then bet turn
b) I do protect/value check-r and after 3bet just call down if A or K dont hit at board
2)
I just dont know if im ahaed or behind now so just call down if dont hit A or K

I think that 1) is stronger but dont know exacly why [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
TT is weaker then JJ and i understand that some player will play them after capped PF just c/c until river but JJ is probably worth to make value c/r

[Aaron W.]

How about a flop call and a turn free showdown raise (regardless of what falls)?

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
How about a flop call and a turn free showdown raise (regardless of what falls)?

[/ QUOTE ]

ohhh, that's not a bad idea.

[Fantam]

I have just come back from a beer, so I hope that I will make some sense.

The point in this hand is not so much about pot odds, but that you are heads up with only one opponent.

Either you have the best hand or he does. You wont necessarily be able to give your opponent incorrect odds to call a flop raise, but it doesnt matter.

What you would like to do, if possible is see a showdown relatively inexpensively. Thats so that you wont lose too much when you have the worst hand.

You also would like to collect some bets from your opponent when you have the best hand, which is why you call a flop bet.