worth call down on turn?

[kerowo]

Montre you need to start putting hand counts on your stat reads. 11 vpip over 20 hands is a lot different than over 200.

It also would be bad to fold this turn. 3rd nuts is always worth a show down at the micros HU. With this guys aggro rating there are lots of hands he is playing this way that you are ahead of. Especially if villain is observant and has seen you playing your nitty poker.

[Montrealcorp]

kerowo i didnt fold turn,but would u of fold turn if no clubs comes in or another J?facing a 1BB on turn and another one(possibly) on river?when u might probably be beat or drawing dead?

and when he raise flop i just wish some players tougth i was probably behind right?

my tought on turn was: if i bet i would of doubt i could of been raised by lower hands(but only by stronger hands wich im beat) after all the strengh i showed vs tight player, but can only make fold lower hands right?

i just dont see when people speaking of bet for value when no one consider if the guy is tight or loose...there is a big difference for me its just not about the board?

theres not just only bad player at .5/1 i think...

[kerowo]

You still didn't say how many hands this read is over.

You didn't say how tricky this guy is so I'm going to give it a medium range and say it is in the realm of possiblity that he is either outright bluffing this flop or semi-bluffing with a pp or draw. Probably not quite as likely as him having a pair of Ks but more likely than him holding the nut or second nut flush.

If the turn isn't a club I still have a draw to the 3rd nuts and am getting way too good of odds to fold for one more bet. At this point I see no reason to assume villain has anything that I can't outdraw.

On the river I'm really tempted to b/c because it is a bit of a blank and I have the 3rd nuts.

You always consider the range of hands your opponent has, that's why you usually see something like, "given villains range" right around the value bet, or it has already been covered, or it actually doesn't matter. You have a tendency to give opponents the best possible hand instead of a range of hands that usually includes lots of hands worse than yours.

In this hand if you didn't think the flush was going to help you and you think villain is only raising KKc here why did you call flop raise?

[calidris]

[ QUOTE ]
for those u said i played too passively;
the guy is pretty tight,i showed big strengh preflop and flop on a very dangerous board and he raised me

[/ QUOTE ]

No Montrealcorp. You did not show big strength. You raised and got called. Then you c-bet the flop with 2nd pair. If I was MP3 holding f.ex. KQ or AK I would raise that flop too. When you check the turn I would asume I'm ahead and you just c-bet the flop w A high or something. You did NOT show any special strength anywhere in the hand.

[ QUOTE ]
,not a loose agressif guy!!the guy never raised preflop yet and is 11.1 preflop for vpip,what u think he called with..

[/ QUOTE ]
I can tell you he did not call with 4c3c anyway. Any special reason you are sure he must have Ac or Qc? The only freakin cards that beat you!

[ QUOTE ]
im just saying and i totally agree with fantam:
"I would not bet the turn. I think that a worse hand would often fold, but you would be raised if your opponent had the nut flush"

[/ QUOTE ]
Excuse me but there are a few more cards that'd continue. Tc comes to mind as does 66, KK, AK, KQ. You know this is the micros? I agree that a donk bet on the turn would be suspicious but by god, c/r then!

[ QUOTE ]
and for that comment:"Just don't play it as OP. He loose at least 1BB each time he plays like that. "

maybe for u but for me,im far from a big favorite here..

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't seem to understand. 2 cards only beat you but they will call with more hands than those.

[ QUOTE ]
(unless ure just speaking of the river check,but even there a tight guy(vpip :11.1) would of cold call with a hand of T high and lower(ie:T9s,etc i doubt it),unless he had a pocket pair,but a tigth passif player wouldnt of just raise like that with only a pair i think unless he had like pocket Q,K,A with a club in it ?).

[/ QUOTE ]

And exactly how many hands did you have logged on him? I had 0 V$IP today for 26 hands. Yesterday I had 46 V$IP over 30.

[calidris]

btw montreal, what's your own stats? Maybe villian picked up that you were raising loose or something? That'd open up his ranges a bit.

[Montrealcorp]

first is strat was on around 40hands,
my stas are vpip 19.4,PFr 7.5,

well maybe i based my oponent decision on mine but,if i didn t had a club it was fold to a bet for me on turn unless i had set or 2 pair for redraws..

so i thought well,let him try to put me out of the pot and if is got a hand well i loose less...on the turn

and he did,i think the more serious error i made is not bet the river in case he had set or 2 pair.that is more of a understanding for me and its noted.

but if u get raise on river yuck...

[kerowo]

[ QUOTE ]
first is strat was on around 40hands,


[/ QUOTE ]

I see why you weren't in a hurry to post them. 12 vpip over 40 hands is what, 6 hands? Not enough to make a read that he is tight or only holding cards that beat you.

I've seen people with the same vpip range over hundreds of hands all of a sudden decide to play garbage, usally because it wins...

[Shillx]

Bet the river. Turn check/call is perfect

[EGO]

Can't fold the turn.

Can you bet the river? I figure villian will have the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] somewhere around 25-30% of the time. Maybe a bit higher, given the line of play until the river. Bet the river, since he'll check behind worse hands almost all the time, but will sometimes call with worse.

[NIX]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the river. Turn check/call is perfect

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this a bet/call or a bet/fold Shillix?