wich is better bet for value or induce bluff?

[Montrealcorp]

not because i dont raise i will run and hide with AJo
but yeah i get your point, but trust me if i see some try this often (isolate me with KQ,etc) .they will pay later cause i will caught up eventually with it ,no?

anyway lets take your side of the story,lets say i raise and u 3bet with KQs anyway or TT,JJ,etc..whats the difference when i check to u and u make continuation bet?if i dont hit it will be more painfull to play cause the pot will be bigger and i will face the same problem anywya except i will of put more money in the pot,no?

a thing to counter this vs good player anyway is (i know u know)u need to limp with AA,KK sometimes and reraise them on preflop once or twice, then they will think harder to make that play vs me after...

cause trust me,when im in position i am very agressif and put pressure on others.
i might been influence too much by LGB (is preflop bet pattern),but i find it so usefull(put less money when OOP and more money with wider range hand in position)that it might inder my limit game.
but for now it works pretty good ,playing like this (lot of player limp with much inferior hand when i dont raise)

[OrigamiSensei]

I think Aaron speaks a lot of sense here. When playing live you don't want to bloat the pot with a bunch of cold-callers. However, in online games this is a clear raise. You'd like to have as few opponents as possible when OOP with AJo and the way to achieve that goal is to raise pre-flop. (and I note Aussie says much the same thing, sorry).

If you raise preflop and lead the flop you probably take the hand down. Since you limped the flop c/r is the correct play but then you blow it on the turn. This is an application of what I call the "switching gears" principle. When you have been the aggressor on the flop there's no reason for you to suddenly go passive on the turn. He could have iso-raised you with a lot of holdings and only a few of them beat you. Giving your opponent an opportunity to take a free card on the turn is a mistake. Since you played the turn so passively I suspect check-calling the river is fine.

My default line with this hand as the cards fall is to raise pre-flop, bet flop, bet turn and then make a decision on the river based on opponent reads for how they will behave.

[OrigamiSensei]

[ QUOTE ]
a thing to counter this vs good player anyway is u need to limp with AA,KK sometimes and reraise them on preflop once or twice, then they will think harder to make that play vs me after...

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry for posting twice in succession but this needs to be dealt with immediately. In ANY game where you are playing with people you don't know and won't be with for any extended period of time this is absolutely silly advice. You get aces once every 221 hands. Now how many opponents do you play and track where you will randomize this play 10 or 20 percent of the time, have your opponent notice and then have it affect their play against you? It's simply not going to happen. Just raise them and take full advantage of your equity.

Now in terms of my regular poker league where we hold NL tournaments I will admit I'm considering limping aces at some point. I play the same people every time and we know each other's games well so I'll probably do it one time soon just to mess with their heads a little. But online nobody is paying attention to that detail and in live casino games you won't get enough hands in for it to have an effect. So don't do it.

[Montrealcorp]

origamisensei,yeah i agree on what ure saying but u must realize as i said earlier,its a tight table so that i raise AJo or not,there wont be a bunch of callers

[NIX]

[ QUOTE ]
anyway lets take your side of the story,lets say i raise and u 3bet with KQs anyway or TT,JJ,etc..whats the difference when i check to u and u make continuation bet?if i dont hit it will be more painfull to play cause the pot will be bigger and i will face the same problem anywya except i will of put more money in the pot,no?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think AB's point is that if you do raise, he isn't going to 3-bet you with KQs anyways and is going to be less likely to force you off a better hand later on. Yes, he is going to 3-bet you with TT or JJ, but those are much stronger hands. If you limp, AB's raising range is KJs+/AJ+/77+ or whatever which is a wide range to play against. If you raise and he 3-bets, his range is now closer to AQ+/TT+ which is much easier to play correctly against because you have a better idea as to what he has.

[tehox]

I think that AJo is going to be hard to play profitably in most games limping UTG. Just my opinion. Some tables I raise, some tables I fold.

I think post flop is interesting. I would prob c/c, c/c, b/c versus this type of villian. You don't want him to fold KK/QQ/JJ, and you don't want to put in too many bets versus AA/AK/AQ.

[Point Blank]

aside from the pre flop discussion ...

any reason for you line?
***

this guy looks like a pretty weak post flop player - but is he able to read a board (as there is nothing on that board that will call in EP which), is he the type to showdown ... is he cappable of folding

personally I don't like a c.r raise ... you are only check raising two things here really (an ace or a complete bluff, perhaps an OESD sometimes) - check raising is a pretty strong move against this guy (I would rather do something like donk, check, donk ... it seems to jam up weak post flop players a lot and get calls from pockets)

as for pre flop ...
if the game is tight you should really be raising AJo in UTG (it's almost like a blind steal move ... I'll raise a lot of weaker stuff in UTG, then tighten up in UTG2, MP1)

[marchron]

[ QUOTE ]
i dunno on this table if its good raise with AJ,if im raise im almost probably beat

[/ QUOTE ]
What's your point? If someone has a hand that beats you, they're probably going to raise. Whether or not you limp and they make it two or you open and they make it three is quite irrelevant, except for the fact that you'll have a little more flexibility postflop because the flop pot will be 7.5 SB, give or take, instead of 5.5 SB.

As played, the flop check/raise is good, but as a default play you should always bet the next street after doing it.

Also, as a general answer to your general question, you should almost always value bet. Inducing bluffs won't always work because many of your opponents are too passive to bluff.

[terencetsao]

raise > fold > call.
call makes your post flop difficult to play..
the flop check raise is good..
but why did you stop on the turn?

[Buzz-cp]

you really need to bet the turn after the flop c/r. Since he didn't 3bet, it's unlikely he has AK, and probably AQ. Given that you didn't bet the turn and he checked, this is the easiest river bet ever. Your line has confused him, and so he will make the call a lot with a weaker hand. If he raises the river, you can probably fold. But getting back to the turn--bet it man.