Live: AK - value bet/check the river?

[BlueEcho]

Not my point at all. And I did say I call

[sapsuckah]

Then I'm missing your point. You said that him pushing over the top makes it a difficult call. If this is a difficult call for you, you need to shake off your MUBS or you'll never be a winning player.

[Galwegian]

[ QUOTE ]
River raise of 800 invites villian to shove. Unless you are calling for sure this is not a good idea.

That said if you are trying to get bets out of weaker hands and are planning on calling villians shove then this can be viewed as a good play. However, if villian shoves there it can be difficult to call, not impossible (I call), but much more difficult.

FWIW I raise PF to 200 and bet more on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]
Blue Echo is the only one that seems to get it. Let's put him on a range after the turn call. Say Ax, 44,55, TT+. Now suppose that if I bet 800 on the river (as a value bet), that he will shove with Ax or 44 and I call. Do the math and you will see that the 800 bet is actually -ev. If we remove TT+ from his range then it becomes extremely -ev

[sapsuckah]

You're range is too restrictive. He'd also shove over the top with AQ, AJ, and AT and the smallish bet might get a call from middle pairs.

All I'm saying is that calling a push over you is not a difficult decision.

[kniper]

if he is really a good lag and thinks you are a TAG shouldn't he be raising the turn with a set of 4s or A5?

[Dunkman]

I'd probably bet 800 or so on the river trying to 1) get calls from pairs and 2) maybe get him to think you're weak and come over the top. I didn't read every word in every post, but if he has us beat he's shoving over our river bet regardless of the size...the only thing betting 800 does is make some of those shoves bluffs. We also have to call when he shoves regardless, because so often it's another A trying to blow you off of a split.

[BlueEcho]

I don't know if you are a good poker player or not but I now know you suck at reading.

[Galwegian]

[ QUOTE ]
You're range is too restrictive. He'd also shove over the top with AQ, AJ, and AT and the smallish bet might get a call from middle pairs.

All I'm saying is that calling a push over you is not a difficult decision.

[/ QUOTE ] Your missing the point i think. I'm not saying that you don't call the push. The point is that when you bet, he shoves Ax and you call, you have gained nothing over just checking behind. However, the chips you gain from his calling with a pair do not make up for the few times that you lose your entire stack to 44 or A5. Work out the math and i think you'll agree.

BTW: I checked and he showed 99

[Cornell Fiji]

Galwegian,
You are so very wrong.

Bet more on the turn and as played bet small (1/2 pot) on the river.

Concerning yourself with getting checkraised and even thinking for the briefest of seconds about folding to a check shove is asinine. Checking behind on this river is beyond bad.

[Sherman]

The only way we can miss more value in this hand than we already have is to check the river. WTF.

Raise more PF. Flop is okay I guess, but I prefer more. Bet more on the turn. And please value bet on the river.

And I really don't care if you tell me, OMG he had quads and I value bet and lost. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]