KK call fold or push? - Page 2

GotQuads · #11 06-13-2007, 10:35 AM

easy shove

FishyMcFish · #12 06-13-2007, 10:35 AM

I was always taught it's better to say nothing than talk about nothing which you seem to have done quite well in your posts.

paddymcg21 · #13 06-13-2007, 10:43 AM

Yes fishy I have quite clearly talked about nothing, this coming from the guy whos contribution to this thread was "Glad he cleared that one up" Jesus learn to be consistent. Anyway I havnt got time to argue with you, I gave my opinion which was similar to most of the others i.e. I shove here. Im sorry if that's not good enough for you. Feel free to post something else you were always taught, like "life is like a box of chocolates"
Have fun.

footnbaseball · #14 06-13-2007, 10:44 AM

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LOL just because it's online doesnt mean the guy is an idiot. He's raised UTG and he knows full well that a raise UTG means something. Now if hero re raises UTG raiser that is sending a strong message. IMO if id been watching hero play and he hadn't got out of line id think the absolute minimum hero has is AK. So why would he then shove??? Maybe my opinions are clouded because ive had a horrid run of about 3 weeks where literally just about 1/3 of the time when ive had KK ive run into AA. The way villain plays this AA is a strong possibility. BTW I said I shove this because like every1 says there isnt really any reason to fold kings here, all im saying is I do it expecting to see aces a good percentage of the time. I think villain folds JJ and AK here, depending on how loose he is he may well fold QQ too. So to sum up I did say I shove this Im just not over the moon about doing so probably due to recent experience.

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You're giving villain a TON of credit. A random online player will almost NEVER fold TT or JJ here (granted, they do usually call with them, but raising is not unheard of), and certainly never QQ. Keep in mind that a lot of players would just call here and slowplay with AA. You need a pretty good read for his range for 4 betting here to be QQ+, he absolutely has TT+, AK and worse here a good percentage of the time.

JoeyJoJo Shabadu · #15 06-13-2007, 11:01 AM

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LOL just because it's online doesnt mean the guy is an idiot. He's raised UTG and he knows full well that a raise UTG means something. Now if hero re raises UTG raiser that is sending a strong message. IMO if id been watching hero play and he hadn't got out of line id think the absolute minimum hero has is AK. So why would he then shove??? Maybe my opinions are clouded because ive had a horrid run of about 3 weeks where literally just about 1/3 of the time when ive had KK ive run into AA. The way villain plays this AA is a strong possibility. BTW I said I shove this because like every1 says there isnt really any reason to fold kings here, all im saying is I do it expecting to see aces a good percentage of the time. I think villain folds JJ and AK here, depending on how loose he is he may well fold QQ too. So to sum up I did say I shove this Im just not over the moon about doing so probably due to recent experience.

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You're giving villain a TON of credit. A random online player will almost NEVER fold TT or JJ here (granted, they do usually call with them, but raising is not unheard of), and certainly never QQ. Keep in mind that a lot of players would just call here and slowplay with AA. You need a pretty good read for his range for 4 betting here to be QQ+, he absolutely has TT+, AK and worse here a good percentage of the time.

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Amen.

I did exactly that myself yesterday with TT facing a 3 bet iso-raise (was committed and wanted to win it)... and ran into JJ with 13 people left in a Stars 180. I bet you see AK more than AA here because AA often flat calls the raise and lets you walk into a world of hurt.

And yes online is different... not only for the quality of
the players, but for the lack of reads that are available and more memorable in live play, decisions are often made much quicker etc.

Folding KK is a crime here... Don't listen to anything else...shove em in and see all 5

DividedSky2001 · #16 06-13-2007, 03:26 PM

Gotta go w/ KK, I mean if he's got AA than he's got it, but most of the time your going to be up against AK or a smaller pair such as QQ or JJ. Me personally, I can fold QQ or lower preflop depending on the action at the table and whose involved obviously but folding KK isn't happening, you have to go with it and hope your up against a smaller pair or AK.

paddymcg21 · #17 06-13-2007, 05:44 PM

Joey, who said they were folding this??

TFGoose · #18 06-13-2007, 05:50 PM

I've folded KK preflop exactly one time, and it was only because I was very familiar with the people in the game and was absolutely positive that the original raiser held AA. Here, however, you are nowhere close to absolutely positive that this guy has AA. As others have said, his range is considerably larger, and KK crushes the vast majority of it.

Generally speaking, KK means "get as much money in the pot as humanly possible." Follow that mantra here.

--TFGoose

paddymcg21 · #19 06-13-2007, 05:55 PM

Ive folded KK pre flop a good few times but most of them have been due to structure of a particular tourney e.g. 9 man sng with 4 left, im short stack, all 3 opponents go all in, i toss my KK into the muck and make the money. In terms of mtt I have folded them twice to my knowledge. 1 time the table went raise, then i re raised with KK then another player re raised, next player shoves and original player calls instantly lol. Anyway you def have to shove here, im just not crazy about it.