My two pair vs. a TAG's turn donk - Page 2

Thriller · #11 06-08-2007, 03:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
pf is fine, standard.
flop is fine, standard.
with top two in 6m (which is aggressive by its nature) a fold here is beyond awful and a call is almost as bad. 100% raise please.

[/ QUOTE ]

fair enough, but why is it awful?

BigBadBabar · #12 06-08-2007, 03:59 PM

thriller, i take it you're new to poker, but top two pair is a strong hand that should go to showdown with lots of betting and raising so the opponent's money gets in the pot and goes to us at that showdown.

Thriller · #13 06-08-2007, 04:06 PM

I'm not new to poker, per se, but I'm new to *thinking* about poker. I've either been insanely lucky over the past few years or I am doing some things naturally right and a lot of things naturally wrong. I deposited 50$ once several years ago and worked it up to about 1200.00, including a couple of small MTT wins. I took most of it out to pay for a skiing trip. This doesn't mean I think I'm good, I was probably very lucky. I came back to find I had <10 and it was time to start building it back up. And, I'm simply ready to learn.

End of PSA - on to the hand in question.

I'm cool with the idea of top two pair going to showdown - that's fine. At the same time, am I supposed to ignore the reason he is betting on the turn in the first place? Am I giving him too much credit for his pre-flop raise and then waiting for the turn to lead out?

The way I see it, we are losing to TT, JJ, KQs and KQo. All of those hands are hands that I can see being raised (and calling a 3-bet) preflop.

I'm not sure how else to interpret the turn bet from the villain.

bravos1 · #14 06-08-2007, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not new to poker, per se, but I'm new to *thinking* about poker. I've either been insanely lucky over the past few years or I am doing some things naturally right and a lot of things naturally wrong. I deposited 50$ once several years ago and worked it up to about 1200.00, including a couple of small MTT wins. I took most of it out to pay for a skiing trip. This doesn't mean I think I'm good, I was probably very lucky. I came back to find I had <10 and it was time to start building it back up. And, I'm simply ready to learn.

End of PSA - on to the hand in question.

I'm cool with the idea of top two pair going to showdown - that's fine. At the same time, am I supposed to ignore the reason he is betting on the turn in the first place? Am I giving him too much credit for his pre-flop raise and then waiting for the turn to lead out?

The way I see it, we are losing to TT, JJ, KQs and KQo. All of those hands are hands that I can see being raised (and calling a 3-bet) preflop.

I'm not sure how else to interpret the turn bet from the villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe villan has A2 before thinking he has these hands. Why would he play in a way to basically ensure the least amount goes into the pot 80% of the time.

NIX · #15 06-08-2007, 04:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm cool with the idea of top two pair going to showdown - that's fine. At the same time, am I supposed to ignore the reason he is betting on the turn in the first place? Am I giving him too much credit for his pre-flop raise and then waiting for the turn to lead out?

[/ QUOTE ]
I ask this to you as well BBB. What range are you putting CO on after his donk?

BigBadBabar · #16 06-08-2007, 04:13 PM

a strong hand, with all the strength we're showing, could checkraise us at any time to get more money into the pot.

Thriller · #17 06-08-2007, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not new to poker, per se, but I'm new to *thinking* about poker. I've either been insanely lucky over the past few years or I am doing some things naturally right and a lot of things naturally wrong. I deposited 50$ once several years ago and worked it up to about 1200.00, including a couple of small MTT wins. I took most of it out to pay for a skiing trip. This doesn't mean I think I'm good, I was probably very lucky. I came back to find I had <10 and it was time to start building it back up. And, I'm simply ready to learn.

End of PSA - on to the hand in question.

I'm cool with the idea of top two pair going to showdown - that's fine. At the same time, am I supposed to ignore the reason he is betting on the turn in the first place? Am I giving him too much credit for his pre-flop raise and then waiting for the turn to lead out?

The way I see it, we are losing to TT, JJ, KQs and KQo. All of those hands are hands that I can see being raised (and calling a 3-bet) preflop.

I'm not sure how else to interpret the turn bet from the villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe villan has A2 before thinking he has these hands. Why would he play in a way to basically ensure the least amount goes into the pot 80% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I am completely out my element. I didn't give a single thought to A2 calling a 3bet pre-flop. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Why would he more likely to have A2?

NIX · #18 06-08-2007, 04:23 PM

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Then I am completely out my element. I didn't give a single thought to A2 calling a 3bet pre-flop. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Why would he more likely to have A2?

[/ QUOTE ]
For any limit poker, if you put in x amount of bets preflop and someone raises so you have to call one more, call that bet. No doing so is really bad. In this case, if CO did raise with A2 preflop, it'd be horrible if he folds getting 9:1 closing the action.

bozlax · #19 06-08-2007, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The way I see it, we are losing to TT, JJ, KQs and KQo. All of those hands are hands that I can see being raised (and calling a 3-bet) preflop.

I'm not sure how else to interpret the turn bet from the villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thrill, it's good that you're trying to do this, but you're making a common mistake: the range is too tight, and only includes hands that beat you. What about AT? What about AK? What about A2? What about JT?

Thriller · #20 06-08-2007, 04:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then I am completely out my element. I didn't give a single thought to A2 calling a 3bet pre-flop. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Why would he more likely to have A2?

[/ QUOTE ]
For any limit poker, if you put in x amount of bets preflop and someone raises so you have to call one more, call that bet. No doing so is really bad. In this case, if CO did raise with A2 preflop, it'd be horrible if he folds getting 9:1 closing the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed and understood. So I guess we are looking at him making his own 2 pair when the 2 hits?

I am beyond confused. I'm evidently missing some very important concepts that are second nature to most people, even at these limits. I'm starting to see that I'm lucky to have profitable to this (admittedly very small sample) point.