3/6 live- when to dump AA check up - Page 2

ChuckyB · #11 06-04-2007, 06:16 PM

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Any time I've ever seen a limp reraise it has always been AA. Once maybe KK.

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That's when I like to limp/re-raise KJs or some other big implied-odds hand. But yeah, the default thinking is AA.

mrcunningham · #12 06-05-2007, 02:13 AM

I have to say that the PF limp-reraise of AA is something that I have done maybe once in the past year, but this seemed like the time to do it. I admit that I was purposefully getting "fancy" here. I don't remember where I read it, maybe SSHE or on this forum, but I recall a passage where some author stated that it is okay to be right of a maniac, because that allows you to raise a trapped field with the nuts. This seemed like exactly what was described. I was able to trap 7 players with the nuts. Seems like this worked out perfectly in this case. It is true that that I could have been burned if everyone checked through, but I figured there was a 50-50 chance I could scoop a big pot. I agree it was a greedy move, but I'm still not convinced that it was EV-. I'm thinking it was only variance increasing.

Another comment is that I have although I don't limp-reraise AA very often, in these loose games I not infrequently limp-reraise many low/mid pairs or suited broadway if there will likely be 6+ callers. Again it should be EV+ to jam the pot if you have a pocket pair and there are 6+ pairs. The suited broadway depends on how high.

sharpie · #13 06-05-2007, 04:18 AM

Awful limp PF. Flop is fine, check/raise a good turn. Fold this bad turn.

ChuckyB · #14 06-05-2007, 04:01 PM

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I agree it was a greedy move, but I'm still not convinced that it was EV-.

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Definitely not -EV. Your chances of winning are probably well under 50% now. But there's 7 times what you invested in the pot. So more likely to get cracked, more likely to win WAY more $$$ the times that you win.

palamedes · #15 06-05-2007, 04:17 PM

It's pretty hard to make a EV- move pf holding AA, but some moves with AA are MORE EV+ than others...

Anyway, a couple of comments: calling AA the 'nuts' pf is true, but probably not what was being referred to by "trapping the field with the nuts", wherever you read that. I would guess that whoever said that was talking about later streets.

Unless you are sure that in your particular game and situation the field can't read your limp-RR for AA (or even limit your range to AA/KK/AKs), then I hate it. It announces your hand and allows the field to play perfectly against you, while you have very little idea what they are holding (because after all you trapped them into playing their hand), virtually guaranteeing the AA nightmare of winning a small pot or losing a big one. I haven't thought carefully about this, but I wouldn't be surprised if just limping is actually better than limp-RR, because then at least you have the power of deception on later streets and could win lots of bets from players holding top pair, or even better two pair with Ax in their hand and an A on board. (But if they suspect you have AA, which they will when you limp-RR pf, then at best they will call these hands down and more likely they'll know to fold.) But as others have pointed out, and you seem to agree anyway, raising is almost surely better. Hopefully maniac will 3-bet and at least get this pot shorthanded, which is of course what you want with AA.

Xhad · #16 06-05-2007, 04:59 PM

Preflop could be good good if you were UTG and maniac is UTG 1. Once two people limp just raise it the first time, you really don't care if maniac folds out the rest of the field and if the limpers fold then that's free money. Postflop is good.

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Hopefully maniac will 3-bet and at least get this pot shorthanded, which is of course what you want with AA.

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If everyone called 3 cold that is the best possible thing that could happen. Having a bunch of people overlimp after the pot's already this big kinda sucks though, which is why you generally shouldn't do this after 2 limpers.

mrcunningham · #17 06-05-2007, 10:23 PM

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Preflop could be good good if you were UTG and maniac is UTG 1. Once two people limp just raise it the first time, you really don't care if maniac folds out the rest of the field and if the limpers fold then that's free money. Postflop is good.

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Hopefully maniac will 3-bet and at least get this pot shorthanded, which is of course what you want with AA.

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If everyone called 3 cold that is the best possible thing that could happen. Having a bunch of people overlimp after the pot's already this big kinda sucks though, which is why you generally shouldn't do this after 2 limpers.

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This explanation makes a lot of sense to me. thanks, Mr. C