Ace King - So i miss the flop again

[BigBadBabar]

i raise some and call some here
depends on reads
if guy's super tight uncreative call and fold turn ui
if he's frisky all bets are off

[00Snitch]

lol eskimo, im sure last week i read a post form you saying that you would raise to teach someone for not betting into you on an earlier street. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

i do like your reasoning, and i think you can add that you probably have lots of outs when you are behind. the exception being when he holds A7/A3/AJ/KJ

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

aha nah you must have misread... i would never raise for that reason. i just dont like being donked in to after pfr.

sh the only times i dont raise a flop donk is when i have a really weak hand (eg. 55 on board of 9TJss), or if im waiting til the turn to raise

[22pajo]

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I don't know if I have evern raised AK UI on the flop.

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I do it a lot. Especially HU or 3 handed, and with position.
I have seen villains donk bet into preflop raisers with as little as straight draws and over cards.
There are a lot of bluffers out there.

That said I like Eskimo's reasoning (the logic reasoning that is, not the "dont bet into me motha fu$ka" reasoning [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

[aK13]

I would probably just fold. Pot is pretty small and our outs are heavily tainted. Not to mention even if we hit a supposed out, there's probably redraws abound.

[pokerqueen10]

You missed the flop completly here. You don't have any runner runner draws really, except picking up a gut shot on the turn. And you may even be reverse dominated. If the better has ace jack or king jack then you are really only looking at three outs. Fold, save your money for a better spot.

[kerowo]

I don't mind a raise on this flop, but it's better if you can do it because you have reads not because of your foolish pride... Raising this flop and betting the turn UI is spew 87% of the time and "overplays overcards UI" is a good note to have on someone.
So, if you get the free card and it doesn't improve you, take it, you'll most likely be folding this UI on the river.

[IQUITyestarday]

I say raise here to his bet. Most people know they can take a pot down here from a preflop raiser. Why, because the villan is putting the hero on a high drawing hand such as AK that did not hit.

Only other possibility is a high pocket pair. A raise here represents that or a set. Even if the villan had top pair here, they may think that you did have a monster and fold anyway.

Some people in this situation bet, then check off "fold to any bet" box and wait and hope the hero folds.

Thats just me.

[tyler_cracker]

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a) we are quite likely ahead of him, as his range includes flush draws, straight draws etc.

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it includes those things sometimes, but i think more of his range is PPs and hands that hit this board. if this raise is for value, it's pretty thin.

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b) button folding is a good thing

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again, what hands do we want button to fold that he will fold? most of the hands we want him to fold also depend on us being ahead of the donker.

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c) metagame - so he doesnt bet in to us next time

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meh.

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d) we can buy a free card and almost certainly have at least a decent amount of equity to catch up

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if we're ahead (and major parts of your argument rely on us being ahead), taking a free card for ourselves is actually giving a free card to our opponent.

[Xhad]

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i probably raise

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I think this is pushing it with no club. I do raise red 88 though, and AK is close on a 773 flop. In this hand you're probably just protecting OP's weak pair for him.