Stud hi 883 ante steal - when do I dump this rag hand?

[vgs]

you played 3rd street right, i will call 7th unless i know this guy well.

[CarlosChadha]

Hi Drew,

I haven't read the other responses yet, so excuse me if I repeat something that has already been said.

3rd st.: You have to raise with this strong a hand in this late a position no matter how the guy with the king plays. Even if he is the best most agressive player in the world, you must raise.

4th: You caught one of the best scare cards in the deck, and you now have a 3 flush, while your opponent ragged. This is an autobet. On 4th your hand is strong enough that you should be planning on betting the the river unless you opponent raises you (in which case you call on 5th and 6th) or he catches an open pair.

Once he raises you, things change a little. You definitely have to call the raise, but now your opponent may be able to beat 8s (he could have 4A4J, 4sXs4Js, or 55s4Js and be raising for a free card).

5th: Ugh, you both catch dead kings, but his helps him if he had a 2 or 3 flush. If you check and he bets, he probably has atleast a pair of 4s with a 4 flush or better. You are getting 2 to 5.25 odds to call both the bet on 5th and 6th. I think you have a VERY thin check call here because every single 8, A, 3, club, and heart is live and because there was a raise on 4th. The reason the live hearts are important is because it looks like to are on a flush draw since the Kh is suit to your doorcard. So, if you catch another heart on 6th your opponent may fear a check raise and check behind with one big pair.

6th: Great! You caught your scare card, he catchs a rag. Now you try to get a free card, and he kindly gives it to you.

7th: Don't mistake the check on 6th for weakness, he was scared of your flush. You can't call the river unimproved (if you were planning on calling him down, you would not have sufficient implied odds to make the call on 5th). If you had made 8s up, I would have check called. With Js up or better, I would bet (if he raises I'd make a crying call with trip 8s and maybe Aces up)

Well, it seems you played the hand perfectly! Now you know how to think it through for next time.

Regards,
Carlos

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the third-street raise is pretty automatic. The other guy's raise on fourth street probably means two pair or a pocket pair larger than Eights. On fifth, there are two Eights, three Aces, a King, and runner-runner clubs which will give you a likely winner. I think you have enough hand to call on fifth. You might even consider betting or check-raising as a semi-bluff, depending on whether the other guy is capable of laying down a hand. On the river, the pot's small enough that even I probably wouldn't try to catch a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy, your advise is right on the money. The ONLY situation in which I could imagine semi-bluff raising or check raising 5th or 6th, is if I caught a heart on 6th. In the case I would check, hoping to get a free card and if that fails check raise (an bluff the river unimproved if called on 6th). The only type of opponent that you can do this check raise against is one that is agressive enough to bet 1 big pair vs. a possible flush AND who is disiplined enough to laydown one big pair to a check raise on 6th or jacks up to a bet on the river. I have never played with a player like that below $75/$150 and even at that level I can only think of about 4 or 5 players capable of such agro value bets combined with such delicate laydowns.

Regards,
Carlos

[DrewOnTilt]

Excellent analysis sir! TYVM.