$11 HU NLTRN dispute

[RyanJM]

There isn't a clear answer to this question. If that was the first time he raised 4x, or it was rare for him to raise 4x, then I would probably fold. Calling is the worst option considering your stack size and his range if he raises often. At the same time, if he was raising often, then 33 is a fine shove because he will fold weaker hands, and there's a good chance it's a flip if he does.

And if he's on the leaderboard with 13% ROI, he must just play a lot because that's not impressive at $11 stakes. I've seen guys with 20% ROI at $100 stakes HU.

[MasterLJ]

In a sense the jerk is right. Low pocket pairs have diminished value in the spot you are in especially given how low the blinds are. Let's say he's a complete dolt and calls with 56o, he may as well have AK. It's a marginal play that won't add to EV, but I'm not entirely sure it will be -EV either.

It's sort of like MTT "M Theory" at certain regions (M = 5 - 10) low pp has little value.

[ChicagoRy]

If he folds half the time isn't this a pretty profitable play? You shouldn't stack up to his calling range worse than 40-60 and you're adding about 15% extra chips every other time to your stack. I didn't run the numbers but off the top of my head that's pretty +EV.

Even if it's the first time he's raised 4x, people that do that rarely seem to not want a call or a shove almost ever. "Ok I have a weak ace, lets try to steal the blinds if he raises he MUST have me beat" or some stupid logic I believe is what a lot of people think.

Also, have you come over the top of a raise with a shove or a ton of 3-bets during this match? If so I'd imagine this changes things a bit.

I still think this is standard and the chat is ridiculous.

[MasterLJ]

1740*40% = 696 equity if called

Breakeven point: (where X = percent times villain calls)

1740*40%*X = 120*100%(1-X)

696X = 120 - 120X
816X = 120
X = 14.7%

If he can call with 15% or greater of his range, this is not profitable.

EDIT: Someone fix my maths... it's not right

[jayluf]

ahh.. i knew this hand would be posted. what hero failed to inform you all is that, as suggested, the 4x BB raise was not the norm, and that i was playing tight-agressive pre-flop against hero at this level in the match. so- he should have drastically narrowed my range of raising to include that he had no fold equity, which in turn creates a -EV with his '33' push. It's a clear fold given the circumstances. Also, my ROI is 20%, not 12 as previously reported.

Thanks!

[ChicagoRy]

[ QUOTE ]
ahh.. i knew this hand would be posted. what hero failed to inform you all is that, as suggested, the 4x BB raise was not the norm, and that i was playing tight-agressive pre-flop against hero at this level in the match. so- he should have drastically narrowed my range of raising to include that he had no fold equity, which in turn creates a -EV with his '33' push. It's a clear fold given the circumstances. Also, my ROI is 20%, not 12 as previously reported.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

So you only raise to 4x with an extremely small % of your hands and will never fold to a push?

Even if this is true, I've come over the top of 4x pushes from ppl that haven't raised 4x in the first few levels and have gotten folds. I think this play by OP is standard because he has never played you/doesn't know a lot of your detailed tendencies, just because he was possibly wrong about having fold equity against you specifically, there is a great enough % of people that raise middle aces or weak pairs 4x exclusively that will give enough respect to a shove to fold a % of those hands they are raising 4x to make this profitable.

And if you truly raise 4x with hands you will felt against anybody then I believe you have a leak you need to address.

[jayluf]

incorrect. for whatever reason, in this instance, against this opponent, i went off track with my gameplan. that gameplan being i will min-raise on the button every single hand in the first two blind levels until, or if, several (or a) specific situation(s) arise (which, i obviously cannot detail). so hereto from that, this was the second blind level i gather? meaning that i must have spotted a pattern in hero's game, which caused me to adjust to it. resulting in the fact that i now had a 2.5:1 chip advantage, and most likely was limping on the button, and yes raising an extremely small % of hands, so small that i will call, 100% of the time, any push from the short hero. this game plan, though certainly not 'perfect', is as close to leak free as i have ever seen. since beginning this game plan, i am now up to #4 in avg profit for the last 500 games on sharkscope.

anyway, i am defending this play in this situation against this opponent. even as hero has never played me previously, if he sees me raise on the button every hand and then adjust to limp-limp-limp-4x raise... what would you gather there... i am bumping with A10/AJ? hardly.

[ChicagoRy]

[ QUOTE ]
incorrect. for whatever reason, in this instance, against this opponent, i went off track with my gameplan. that gameplan being i will min-raise on the button every single hand in the first two blind levels until, or if, several (or a) specific situation(s) arise (which, i obviously cannot detail). so hereto from that, this was the second blind level i gather? meaning that i must have spotted a pattern in hero's game, which caused me to adjust to it. resulting in the fact that i now had a 2.5:1 chip advantage, and most likely was limping on the button, and yes raising an extremely small % of hands, so small that i will call, 100% of the time, any push from the short hero. this game plan, though certainly not 'perfect', is as close to leak free as i have ever seen. since beginning this game plan, i am now up to #4 in avg profit for the last 500 games on sharkscope.

anyway, i am defending this play in this situation against this opponent. even as hero has never played me previously, if he sees me raise on the button every hand and then adjust to limp-limp-limp-4x raise... what would you gather there... i am bumping with A10/AJ? hardly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I being leveled here?

[jayluf]

?

[HokieGreg]

Dear Jayluf,

People will take your posts more seriously if you use more paragraphs and periods and less words like "hereto."

Regards,

HokieGreg