1st hand top set, NLTRN

[radiihead]

everyone is overthinking this hand, i was basically wondering whether you shove the turn or just call... I think we lose alot of value by shoving the turn

maybe Im wrong, but the random morons that play these dont give up on their bluff on the river,

[ChicagoRy]

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maybe Im wrong, but the random morons that play these dont give up on their bluff on the river,

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What if the turn makes a straight he checks you bet and he folds middle pair or something?

I think villains call the shove on the turn close enough to you getting it in on the river enough to make this more profitable. If he's on a pure draw he might check/fold. A lot of morons bluff the river but a lot of them also check fold after 2 barrels and resistance. Shove turn.

[soop]

[ QUOTE ]
everyone is overthinking this hand, i was basically wondering whether you shove the turn or just call... I think we lose alot of value by shoving the turn

maybe Im wrong, but the random morons that play these dont give up on their bluff on the river,

[/ QUOTE ]

I think villian has a 9 here a lot and calls the turn push but folds a river miss.

[BJLTNYK]

I don't understand just calling the turn here at all. A little too fancy for my liking. If he flopped the straight so be it as has been said.

I think you have to put him om some sort of combo T9/89/79 and he's not folding to a turn shove. If the river comes a jack or 6 and he shoves what are you doing? Why are you putting any sort of tough decision on your part? I think you have to go allin here to protect your hand/get max value long run. Sure you can say he doesn't give up a bluff if the river bricks but those that fill the straight are just awful for you.

[HokieGreg]

I don't think OP is worried about being behind in the hand.

His question is if the right play is to call the turn or push the turn. Should you call on the turn so that if villain has air he has the opportunity to bluff at the river?

I think it's a little too fancy, but I see what you are getting at.

[radiihead]

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I think you have to put him om some sort of combo T9/89/79 and he's not folding to a turn shove. If the river comes a jack or 6 and he shoves what are you doing? Why are you putting any sort of tough decision on your part? I think you have to go allin here to protect your hand/get max value long run. Sure you can say he doesn't give up a bluff if the river bricks but those that fill the straight are just awful for you.

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If he has the draw/combo he is calling our shove anyway, so if he gets there on the river with a J,6 or 2nd pair.. etc...it doesn't matter. We are committing to calling the river when we call the turn. There won't be a tough decision. We are trying to get max value out of our hand. And if villain is OE or has the combo at this point theyre not going anywhere anyway. So why not just call and keep the bluffs hanging around when 90% of the time air is shoving river into us?

[BJLTNYK]

I guess if your plan is to call ANY river including jacks and 6s then this is fine. It's not a play I would use but now I guess I see what you're saying about letting villain hang himself. Interesting thought.

[Nichomacheo]

Yeah I follow now --

The problem is that if he has 77/88/78 type hands, you lose value when one of the scare cards come on the river because he will problably just check/call since it looks like you were on the straight draw.

Everything considered, i think you have to push turn.

/\/

[radiihead]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I follow now --

The problem is that if he has 77/88/78 type hands, you lose value when one of the scare cards come on the river because he will problably just check/call since it looks like you were on the straight draw.

Everything considered, i think you have to push turn.

/\/

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I see what youre saying, and I agree against those holdings a scare card could make him shutdown... idk, perhaps Im being slightly results oriented because villain folded to the turn shove. I dont disagree with shoving turn really but after the hand I thought we might get more value by just calling because obv in this example villain had nada....

thanks for replies

[whaahhahahah]

he's calling this 100%, so why do you have to worry about being able to bluff on the river?

do you want to be able to fold if the river is a scare card?

i don't get it