LC: Sngpt says push but does it understand ICM?

[wiggs73]

Hahaha, I'm sorry but I couldn't help but LOL at the title. It's akin to asking "Hey, does this ICM calculator understand ICM?".

Ok, so SNGPT analyzes ICM calculations but does so in a vacuum. In other words, it doesn't predict the future. It looks at a push versus a fold for this hand only and calculates your equity of the prize pool if you fold and your equity if you push, based on what range you think BB will call with. It doesn't think ahead to the next hand and figure out how your equity might change during that hand and compare it to equities of actions you could take on this hand. It certainly doesn't think ahead to 2 hands from now and notice that a short stack will get hit by blinds again before you.

Now as to the actual hand, it still is just a simple ICM question and ZeroPoint gave a good answer... it just depends on BB's calling range. I think you could make a strong case for folding if short stack was a lot shorter, say 400 chips. But if he doubles once, you're the new short stack so I don't think I'd pass on this opportunity to steal blinds and antes.


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I understand sngpt well

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The fact that you didn't seem to know that it's an ICM calculator really makes me doubt that statement. I think you'd benefit greatly by reading the ICM section of the FAQ, particularly the Dethgrind link, and then spending some time playing with SNGPT and figuring out why it's telling you to make one move instead of another.

[nighty_boy]

i lolZ at you who lols! screw sngpowertool etc and learn the game instead its better that way. Fold

[Ocean613]

"I don't think I'd pass on this opportunity to steal blinds and antes."

Maybe I am a nit but I fold this. I think BB with that stack is calling a lot wider than 25% most of the time even if he isn't a good player. How often do we really steal the blinds here given stack sizes and blinds?

[allaboutheu]

Sorry all. I always thought sngpt used ICM in its calculations untill someone in another forum told me otherwise (last time I listen to what people say there). More so then that though despite wording it horribly what I was trying to get across whas that while it is telling me to push (assume it is if you disagree) it seems more common sense to fold and let shorty put 1/3 of his stack in the bb and then probably shove into him.

Thanks for the responses and for informing correctly about sngpt.

Another quick question: If your multitabling and have no reads whatsover on opponents, what is a good generic calling range to put then on in sngpt?

[Slim Pickens]

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Sorry all. I always thought sngpt used ICM in its calculations untill someone in another forum told me otherwise (last time I listen to what people say there).

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Link, please! That should be hilarious and informative.

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Another quick question: If your multitabling and have no reads whatsover on opponents, what is a good generic calling range to put then on in sngpt?

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If you get to the push/fold stage with "no reads what so ever," you need to figure out how to get reads. I suggest PAHUD set up to show you some basic preflop numbers. It's not perfect but it helps.

[Slim Pickens]

The easy answer to your question is that a stack with 3 BB isn't anywhere close to short enough to really screw up a SNGPT calculation. If the big stack is calling that loose, you're just as unlikely to have a +$EV pushing opportunity when you have to push from the CO, over the big stack, and into short on the BB as you are pushing off the SB into the loose big stack's BB.