Draw played strong

[fretelöo]

That's the point - you have 30-something percent equity on the flop and c/r a LP bettor? That's the best way to push out everyone that MIGHT have stayed in for one.

Bet out yourself or go for overcalls. On the turn, your equity has decreased and he still likes his hand. You're still not folding and everyone that folds NOW is again cutting into your equity. Again, go for overcalls.

K-high IS never ever good and is never ever GOING to be good on this board, so don't go on Mission Impoosible.

[Riku]

I like the idea, though, but wouldn´t do it on this board [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Riku]

EDIT: deleted.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

hahahaha i love it. this is totally expert, no joke.

it is probably the only board and the only situation this play is ever correct tho

[Riku]

I had a similar hand some good 4 months ago and posted it here. The conclusion was that if i do a check raise, i would 1) want to do it against a late bettor 2) want him to be betting with a worse hand than mine (drawy board and he´s aggro and maybe a pot shooter betting his draw) 3) want the raise to get rid of most of the people, preferably HU.

If the raise here accomplishes all these, then i don´t mind.
But the turn...

[Chino987]

personally I raise this PF and lead.

I dont like your turn raise, seems spewy and the 3 scares nobody.

[nichtsnutz]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet out yourself or go for overcalls. On the turn, your equity has decreased and he still likes his hand. You're still not folding and everyone that folds NOW is again cutting into your equity. Again, go for overcalls.

K-high IS never ever good and is never ever GOING to be good on this board, so don't go on Mission Impoosible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said K-high was ever good and I don't think so. I just meant that this was a case of "Don't worry about that extra bet, worry about winning the pot" and raising can significantly increase my chances of winning this pot if people fold after me. I lose a little value because they won't call with trash but I win half the pot everytime AJ folds and I don't have to chop when an 8 hits.

Even if your conclusions are right, your arguments are wrong. Maybe the pot isn't quite big enough to justify the flop-raise but saying "K-high is never good let them call while you draw" is not smart.

[fretelöo]

[ QUOTE ]
...and raising can significantly increase my chances of winning this pot

[/ QUOTE ]


that's what I'm questioning, even

[ QUOTE ]
if people fold after me.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I win half the pot everytime AJ folds and I don't have to chop when an 8 hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying you raise because then you'd win the full pot in the case that a) one specific card falls and b) one specific combo is out there to which you'd otherwise chop?

I think you shouldn't be concerned about the one-in-a hundred chop with AJ but the domination by QJ (if it ever comes to that), and, more to the point, the TP that's likely out there already, will never fold and collect a [censored] of bets from you if he's reasonably aggressive.

[nichtsnutz]

[ QUOTE ]
So you're saying you raise because then you'd win the full pot in the case that a) one specific card falls and b) one specific combo is out there to which you'd otherwise chop?


[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm saying that if any of the 10 cards that improve my hand (but don't give me the nuts) falls on the flop there are a lot of hands that I wish I had pushed out while I still could. Those are all weak hands that could call for a bet but often fold for two (gutshots, middle/bottom pair).

I'm obviously not getting the CO to lay down TP but I don't have to because all my draws are to hands better then a pair of tens. I'm only trying to make sure I win IF any of my draws does come in.

[marchron]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm obviously not getting the CO to lay down TP but I don't have to because all my draws are to hands better then a pair of tens. I'm only trying to make sure I win IF any of my draws does come in.

[/ QUOTE ]
If your draws come in, you're likely to win no matter how many opponents you have. The only thing you're doing by blowing away the field is giving you some room for your overcard outs.