JJ multiway flops top set, plays badly?

[Black Aces 518]

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I think the turn is the worst, and it made the river...well...exactly what you got. Every other street is debatable, the river call is a bit weak, but preflop and flop I'd probably play the same. Turn sucks so hard though. You have to bet that turn. You don't have to bet huge, but there's ~7k in the pot, you've got like 9k left...I'm torn between just pushing vs. betting 4.5k on the turn with the intent of getting the rest in on any river.

[/ QUOTE ]This was exactly my thoughts at the time. If any of the limpers had called the flop bet, I was pushing any turn.

PF, I didn't re-raise because the table had been playing tight and fairly trappy, so given the relative deepness of the stacks, I didn't really want to have to choose between calling or folding to a limp-push.

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Preflop is fine, esp given the read, but please share your thoughts on the river, specifically how often you are beat, and how often he pays off a river shove with a hand that loses to three jacks, which is damn near every hand possible.

[seke2]

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I think the turn is the worst, and it made the river...well...exactly what you got. Every other street is debatable, the river call is a bit weak, but preflop and flop I'd probably play the same. Turn sucks so hard though. You have to bet that turn. You don't have to bet huge, but there's ~7k in the pot, you've got like 9k left...I'm torn between just pushing vs. betting 4.5k on the turn with the intent of getting the rest in on any river.

[/ QUOTE ]This was exactly my thoughts at the time.

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Probably should have bet the turn, then. Seriously. Turn. Very bad. If you were OOP, and had checked going for a C/R or another C/C, fine. But you can't check behind there.

[sethypooh21]

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I think the turn is the worst, and it made the river...well...exactly what you got. Every other street is debatable, the river call is a bit weak, but preflop and flop I'd probably play the same. Turn sucks so hard though. You have to bet that turn. You don't have to bet huge, but there's ~7k in the pot, you've got like 9k left...I'm torn between just pushing vs. betting 4.5k on the turn with the intent of getting the rest in on any river.

[/ QUOTE ]This was exactly my thoughts at the time. If any of the limpers had called the flop bet, I was pushing any turn.

PF, I didn't re-raise because the table had been playing tight and fairly trappy, so given the relative deepness of the stacks, I didn't really want to have to choose between calling or folding to a limp-push.

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Preflop is fine, esp given the read, but please share your thoughts on the river, specifically how often you are beat, and how often he pays off a river shove with a hand that loses to three jacks, which is damn near every hand possible.

[/ QUOTE ]After he checked the turn, I felt he didn't have much, so given that draws just came in (BET THE TURN, [censored]) it seemed like a spot where if I pushed and got called, I was almost certainly beat. Plus, I was running a little bad, so was seeing MUTB - as it turned out he had 9c8c, runner-runner.

[Black Aces 518]

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I think the turn is the worst, and it made the river...well...exactly what you got. Every other street is debatable, the river call is a bit weak, but preflop and flop I'd probably play the same. Turn sucks so hard though. You have to bet that turn. You don't have to bet huge, but there's ~7k in the pot, you've got like 9k left...I'm torn between just pushing vs. betting 4.5k on the turn with the intent of getting the rest in on any river.

[/ QUOTE ]This was exactly my thoughts at the time. If any of the limpers had called the flop bet, I was pushing any turn.

PF, I didn't re-raise because the table had been playing tight and fairly trappy, so given the relative deepness of the stacks, I didn't really want to have to choose between calling or folding to a limp-push.

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Preflop is fine, esp given the read, but please share your thoughts on the river, specifically how often you are beat, and how often he pays off a river shove with a hand that loses to three jacks, which is damn near every hand possible.

[/ QUOTE ]After he checked the turn, I felt he didn't have much, so given that draws just came in (BET THE TURN, [censored]) it seemed like a spot where if I pushed and got called, I was almost certainly beat. Plus, I was running a little bad, so was seeing MUTB - as it turned out he had 9c8c, runner-runner.

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I don't know what to say about this. I think your read needs work, most tightish people aren't raising 98s to 2.6xBB behind 3 limpers. I assumed (bc you posted) that he would have shown AcKc or some such.

[sethypooh21]

Oh agreed. I wasn't that surprised to see clubs but I was surprised to see 98. But how much of a read can I really expect to get on an unknown in 20 hands or so?

[Black Aces 518]

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Oh agreed. I wasn't that surprised to see clubs but I was surprised to see 98. But how much of a read can I really expect to get on an unknown in 20 hands or so?

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The fact that you only have 20 hands at the table lessens the power of the read for preflop also. I assumed your table had been together for quite a while. Given the lessened read power, I like a reraise preflop (call still OK, if you are willing/able to get away easy if beaten), still like the flop play, but it makes the turn even WORSE, since his range can be wider, he may pay off lighter, etc. And again on the river, must shove. There is no way any over pair is folding. You cry if he shows TT and you didn't jam, and his play is consistent with it. He calls with AJ every time (esp after leading the 3600).

[sethypooh21]

I had about 20 on the villain, considerably more on the table in general (hence my 'tight-trappy' table read). I'm really surprised that you think shoving the river is +EV, especially since I still have a playable stack left if I just call and lose.

[Black Aces 518]

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I had about 20 on the villain, considerably more on the table in general (hence my 'tight-trappy' table read). I'm really surprised that you think shoving the river is +EV, especially since I still have a playable stack left if I just call and lose.

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What hand would you need to shove the river? Would you shove 89, no club? KcQc? Or do you need the nuts? I like the river call if the club draw was present on the flop (though that would change the line on other streets obv). But I expect to see 89 virtually never, and clubs a very small % of the time, esp in comparison to the times when he can pay you off. The real cash is top 3 in these, you have to accumulate. You have a very powerful and very underrepresented hand. You have underrepped your hand on every single street.

Would you have called a shove from villain?

[Keevon]

The only excuse for checking the turn is to shove the river. Not shoving the river as it was played is horrible. I agree with betting the turn, but I don't think checking behind is horrible as long as you plan to shove the river.

[sethypooh21]

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I had about 20 on the villain, considerably more on the table in general (hence my 'tight-trappy' table read). I'm really surprised that you think shoving the river is +EV, especially since I still have a playable stack left if I just call and lose.

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What hand would you need to shove the river? Would you shove 89, no club? KcQc? Or do you need the nuts? I like the river call if the club draw was present on the flop (though that would change the line on other streets obv). But I expect to see 89 virtually never, and clubs a very small % of the time, esp in comparison to the times when he can pay you off. The real cash is top 3 in these, you have to accumulate. You have a very powerful and very underrepresented hand. You have underrepped your hand on every single street.

Would you have called a shove from villain?

[/ QUOTE ]Instantly. The size of his river bet locked me up a little - it seemed very value-bettish.