Fire again with QQ's in 3r?

[Tanksfurnutin]

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My initial thought was to check the turn. On the river, if he bets out, I'd call. If he checks, I'd bet for value.

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So if we check and a scary card comes on the river (like an ace) do we still call a bet?

Thanks again for all the reply's.

[ItalianFX]

I prefer to have a card less than Q. He has been playing pretty passively. If a King or Ace hit and then he bets the river, I'd find a tough fold there. I really think, though, that no matter what card hits the river, he will tell you if you are beat or not. Check = weak, Bet = Strong (only if it's an Ace or King)

[Sherman]

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My initial thought was to check the turn. On the river, if he bets out, I'd call. If he checks, I'd bet for value.

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So if we check and a scary card comes on the river (like an ace) do we still call a bet?

Thanks again for all the reply's.

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Probably. I might fold to a shove on the river though. But if we are really that risk aversive to people making draws, why play poker? Or if we still wanna play poker, why not only go all-in PF everyhand we wish to play? Obviously because it isn't the most profitable way to play poker.

[Tanksfurnutin]

Well here's what happened. I was suspicious of the flat call on my flop bet but I didn't want to let him draw out on me. Thought about it for awhile and decided to shove the turn. He calls and flips over a pair of 9's for trips. See ya!!

I was really annoyed at myself because I thought about checking. After an ace came on the river I have convinced myself I could have folded and still been alive. I'm just fooling myself though, because I'm not that good and probably would have called anyway.

[Sherman]

But the difference is, if you checked behind on the turn, he might have bet for value (smaller bet than a shove) on the river. Pot Control.

You told him you have a big hand twice and he is still sticking around. Check the turn. Keep the pot smaller.

Against opponents that are really bad and can't ever fold TP, I could see shoving the turn (because he has QJ, KJ, or AJ a lot and we want him to pay us off). But if your opponent is not the type to call off tons of chips with only TP, you have to check this turn. Pot control.

That being said, he might have moved you in anyway and you could have folded (only b/c the ace hit). But you probably would have had to call with lots of other river cards.

A bit unlucky, but you also let your opponent play perfect on the turn.

[TwistedEcho]

shermn,

This is the 3r, you don't need to do indepth thinking or pot control. In this hand, this should be your thought process.

Preflop - Oh look i have QQ, someone minraises, time to repop them! (personally i really, really, really hate the minraise, but whatever - i didn't play this hand)

Flop - SHIP THE OVERPAIR I NOW HAVE THE NUTS!!! Bet 3/4 pot for value, call if he shoves. Push if he raises anything.

Turn - SHIP A BLANK I STILL HAVE THE NUTS!!! Value bet/shove/whatever my stack dictates. Since we don't even have a potsized bet behind checking behind is sooooooo bad.
PUSHPSUHPSUHPSUHSPHUS

When he calls: YES DOUBLE UP TIME, (he flips 99) FKING COOLER.

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anyway, the point is we lost to trips, who cares. Please put him on a RANGE of hands, where checking >>> pushing (also remember this is the 3r, so 88/TT/AJ/JK/33 can even call this push). This is not a spot where you need to worry about pot control, or him playing perfect poker.

[Sherman]

Well, I have never played the 3r so I guess I don't know what the typical opponent is like. But either way, I almost always check this turn unless I know my opponent is the type to go too far with TP. Without a read that my opponent is bad, I don't really think I am shoving this turn.

In my experience, checking turns is a gold mine. Sure every now and then someone makes their draw, but you get more than paid off by value betting the river and picking off bluffs from Villain's who see your turn as weak.

I absolutely agree with your thought process up until the turn (preflop and flop). If he shoved the flop I'd insta-call. But his call on the flop is much scarier than a shove.

You already told your opponents twice that you have a hand and he still hasn't gone away. If you tell him a 3rd time (shove the turn) is he honestly going to call with 33 or 88? Maybe this is more tournament dependent than I think.

BTW - KJ is not in his range. The only worse hand I really see him calling this bet with is AJ and sometimes TT. But like I said, I don't play the 3r.

[registrar]

I've played the $3r and the flop call can represent any J, any pair, AK, AQ, any part of the str8 draw and a non-zero percentage of entirely random hands that villain is never folding after pre-flop nomatter what the board or action.

[ZJ123]

checking the turn is ridic. bad. With this board... in the 3r.
What are trying to accomplish??? seriously....

Easy turn Shove.

[Sherman]

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What are trying to accomplish??? seriously....

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Explained above. You must have missed it.