|
|
#11
03-19-2007, 07:58 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Miracle
[ QUOTE ]
Since we have zero precedent or allegations about the nerdy kid version (besides jokes and speculations), whilst we do have allegations and claims stubbornly supported and handed down to us by our ancestors, i.e. the proper God versions, it would be more likely that a proper God is at work rather than the nerdy kid. [/ QUOTE ] Nah, nothing could be clearer evidence of the brain in vat theory. Don't have to grow all those pesky limbs or a simulation, just change the inputs to the brain. or its a kid, or its god, or its ... whatever takes your fancy. or maybe not. chez 
|
|
#12
03-19-2007, 11:04 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I T \' S A M I R A C L E ! ! ! !
I enjoy Notready's insistence on belittling Hawkins and making assumptions about how he thinks... while admitting he's never read any of his books.
It just gets better and better.
|
|
#13
03-19-2007, 11:25 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I T \' S A M I R A C L E ! ! ! !
[ QUOTE ]
Suppose this headline tomorrow with the following story: [ QUOTE ] Overnight every single human being on the planet who had lost an appendage, finger, toe, leg, arm, whatever, awoke to discover that all had been fully restored and are completely functional. Scientists and theologians alike are dumbfounded. [/ QUOTE ] Would this do any more for people like DS than convince them that the nerdy kid in Dimension #197a had been playing with his new toy, call in a Nimbus 2000 dimensionalizer and universator? He found the button that regrows human legs, etc. I don't see why it would even slow down Dawkins and Co. - they would just have to readjust their rhetoric. [/ QUOTE ] If something like this were to happen, I would believe that there is a higher power somewhere out there who is capable of allowing amputees to regrow lost limbs. I'd assume that he'd also have other powers as well, but anything beyond the fact that he can "re-grow limbs" would be purely conjecture on my part. Is this the answer you were looking for?
|
|
#14
03-19-2007, 11:29 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I T \' S A M I R A C L E ! ! ! !
If something like this happens... many who rely on evidence would reassess their views.
But we never see something like this happen. And though it will never happen, the views of those who choose to believe will never change.
|
|
#15
03-19-2007, 11:36 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I T \' S A M I R A C L E ! ! ! !
[ QUOTE ]
Suppose this headline tomorrow with the following story: [ QUOTE ] Overnight every single human being on the planet who had lost an appendage, finger, toe, leg, arm, whatever, awoke to discover that all had been fully restored and are completely functional. Scientists and theologians alike are dumbfounded. [/ QUOTE ] Would this do any more for people like DS than convince them that the nerdy kid in Dimension #197a had been playing with his new toy, call in a Nimbus 2000 dimensionalizer and universator? He found the button that regrows human legs, etc. I don't see why it would even slow down Dawkins and Co. - they would just have to readjust their rhetoric. [/ QUOTE ] I'm an atheist, but if this happened, my entire world view would change. I would consider the existence of a higher power as the most likely explanation, while continually searching for a logical scientific one. However, I would definitely not ascribe this miracle to the Christian god, and in fact it would make me even less likely to believe in his existence. It would be far, far more likely that there is some higher power which no major religion has right. Edit: Contrast this with hardcore believers, whose world views never can change.
|
|
#16
03-19-2007, 01:15 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I T \' S A M I R A C L E ! ! ! !
Why resort to this hypothetical at all? Why not rebut Dawkins based on the world as it actually is? In particular, why not cite all the well-documented miracles and phenomena which can't possibly be explained by naturalism?
Oh, right, because there aren't any. Carry on.
|
|
#17
03-19-2007, 01:31 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Miracle
I think it's a very valid question...
Suppose this would be enough to convince it was the work of God (as I think it would), and not a nerdy 6th dimensional kid. Now what should cause me to believe this was the work of the Christian God and not Allah? It's a serious question. So while I (and many others), would believe in God now, how would you council us at knowing which one? And can I turn your question on you?... Suppose the name Mohamed were inscribed on every regrown limb. Would this now cause you to change your faith? Or would you just say it was a trick of the devil?
|
|
#18
03-19-2007, 02:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Miracle
[ QUOTE ]
Suppose the name Mohamed were inscribed on every regrown limb. Would this now cause you to change your faith? Or would you just say it was a trick of the devil? [/ QUOTE ] A fair question. Biblical miracles always occurred accompanied by God's Word (I can't think of any exceptions). So if something like I described occurred with no message I would have no explanation for it. And that's part of the reason for my OP. Atheists keep asking for a miracle, DS says even proof of a real magic event will do. But the examples in the Bible and the posts here indicate that miracles don't do what people think they do. I believe that anyone who is convinced by a miracle would have been convinced anyway.
|
|
#19
03-19-2007, 02:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I T \' S A M I R A C L E ! ! ! !
[ QUOTE ]
Is that another one of your jokes? or is that your considered opinion? [/ QUOTE ] I'm certain many scientists (and others) would say that. Or whatever. Anything but God.
|
|
#20
03-19-2007, 02:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I T \' S A M I R A C L E ! ! ! !
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Is that another one of your jokes? or is that your considered opinion? [/ QUOTE ] I'm certain many scientists (and others) would say that. Or whatever. Anything but God. [/ QUOTE ] So any reason to make that claim about Dawkins? chez
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
