2-5 flopped full house hand; two questions

[luegofuego]

not getting it in on turn is terribleeeee

[jamiezig]

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its live poker, so no one folds a flush here and some drunkie isn't folding AK so i poosh for value

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how many u had? nevermind...apparently i'm the drunk. you're talking turn not river, right?

gross river. turn call is fine, whatever. certainly call the smaller bet and possibly the bigger one, but that's more player dependant.

[Gamblor]

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Shove the turn, he probably has a flush. If he has an A, he's playing it pretty strangely, but he's probably happy to get it in, as well. He's not bluffing here often enough to even really consider it.

I'm probably calling most river bets, he almost never has an A here. The only As you should fear are A5 and A7, dunno if he'd limp that UTG though. Try to get a live read.

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when i said he has to just call, i was referring to the villain's point of view. if the villain has AQ or AT or something, he would just call the turn. Since he didn't, he has either a flush, a 5, AxKd, or is on the blow with high cards or a small-medium pocket pair.

Therefore, hope he has one of the first two and shove.

on the river i probably call the smallish bet and fold the biggish one, unless he shoves in which case i really think and probably go with any physical read i can get. if i can't get one, i fold.

this was just an articulation of why you are right.

[Diplomat]

Lots of answers to the easy question (C) and not many answers for the tough questions (A and B). Anyone have some additional constructive thoughts on these two river scenarios?

-Diplomat

[soah]

It's very tough for him to have an ace here. Almost always he should have a five or a flush, and the river card should slow him way down. However, drunk people do really stupid things so how much I'm willing to call on the end is pretty highly correlated to his sobriety level.

edit: if he's not really drunk he should realize that an ace comprises a bit part of your hand range.

[Diplomat]

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It's very tough for him to have an ace here. Almost always he should have a five or a flush, and the river card should slow him way down. However, drunk people do really stupid things so how much I'm willing to call on the end is pretty highly correlated to his sobriety level.

edit: if he's not really drunk he should realize that an ace comprises a bit part of your hand range.

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I agree with what you have written here. In my original post I should have been more specific about how intoxicated he was. Definitely not drunk but definitely not sober. I'd go with happy buzz.

Either bet is difficult to call imo. In reality I think I'm calling both sized bets because I cannot find an ace in his hand. The turn checkraise just smelt too much like a five or a flush for me to fold. I also don't know what he expects me to call with if he pushes...

-Diplomat

[juiceistilted]

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calling the turn is fine, its being a bit results orientated to say you should definitely re raise turn

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exactly

[Percula]

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calling the turn is fine, its being a bit results orientated to say you should definitely re raise turn

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exactly

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The OP describes the villain as decent, playing a long session and maybe a little drunk. That does not mean he is drunk or even playing badly, just that his play might be suspect.

What is the hand range you put a typical "decent" player on that limps UTG/EP and calls a LP raise? I generally put them on something like a small PP, mid PP up to about 88 or 99 and AT-AK, maybe two paint cards.

So now we have a ugly flop for AT-AK and an OK flop for small to mid PP's, and villain check calls. I would expect an overpair to c/r here, the flat call screams AT-AK. Wham now the A hits the turn, and this gives him a chance to push the LP likely light raise off his weak ace or suited connector, etc. Whoops he called the c/r...

Ace hits the river and "YES! I have a boat with my AT-AK!!!! Lets get the money in."

So three betting on the turn is not results oriented at all, it is EV motivated. You flop a boat, get called on a pretty much standard c-bet, now you get check raised when an card that the villain likely holds hits and if the villain thinks he is playing ace poker, the villain thinks he is ahead more times than not and is likely to pay off here.

[Diplomat]

Villian bet 200 on the river, I flipped my hand and thought, then called. He mucked and said that he played the board.

-Diplomat

[True]

calling the turn is absolutely fine....