Losing Players.

[4_2_it]

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I've added some questions, 4_2, because I've been away from the game for a while -- only getting my poker fix vicariously through my wife and occasionally sitting in to play when she has a phone call, etc. But boy, the glory of PP has truly evaporated, it seems.

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I agree with this. The number of spew monkeys available to US players has absolutely dwindled. The games are still beatable, but not for the 100PTBB/100 we saw in the good ole days [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[EMc]

Job or no job, im still waiting for pulled pork and the Marcel Luske invitational

[carrotsnake]

from all accounts, FT is fairly rocky. But come on, its still 100 nl, and there are still plenty of fish that flitter through at all times.

2) Debatable, only the future will tell, till then its a lot more TAGs, and there will always be more TAGs now cuz more people find this website and ones like it everyday. (Specially with idiot TAGs asking about 2p2 on the tables, grrrrrrrr).

3) The optimal preflop strategy is based on each individuals skill level. If you play better post, you should play more hands pre, and vice versa.

[epdaws]

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I'm looking to be one of the best players in the world, not just to prey on bad players for all of my life.

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Yeah, very fair point. When I was playing a bunch over 05 and 06, I was very much focused on being the best player at whatever level I was playing. Stacking TAGs is way more satisfying than stacking donks.

But for my wife, I wish she could have seen what the PP 6M tables looked like. Just sick.

[sixhigh]

For the last month i have 40k hands on UB at NL100 when I use the same filter.

At all I get -0.5 PTBB/100, 49% losing players.

Obviously your range generates losing players on average. Or the sites are rigged, whatever.

[epdaws]

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Probably the biggest reason though is that a lot of people have gotten the book stuff down. Raise x when sitting y, 3 bet a when b raises. All that stuff. But they don't get why. They don't understand what they are doing, just that doing it is the right thing.

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I think you nailed this point. I can't tell you how often I've felt this way just watching or reading hand histories of late. In one situation, my wife was constantly getting 3-bet preflop in position by a 22/17 guy, and I told her to mix it up and refuse to let him push her around. The player obviously knew she hated being 3bet pre, but he didn't know what to do when she shifted gears. He just knew to play one style.

[epdaws]

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Job or no job, im still waiting for pulled pork and the Marcel Luske invitational

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Heh, we did not host one in 2006! You're on the list for 2007, and we really hope to have it this spring.

[n1nj4.br]

I have 1.636.170 hands datamined on fulltilt nl200.

63% are losers.


The biggest loser is a 16/12 player.

[MasterLJ]

[ QUOTE ]
For the last month i have 40k hands on UB at NL100 when I use the same filter.

At all I get -0.5 PTBB/100, 49% losing players.

Obviously your range generates losing players on average. Or the sites are rigged, whatever.

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As far as historical trends, for the last 1.5-2 years I've had PT, the average losing player at virtually any stake I've played (micros + all SSNL stakes now) is 35% winners / 65% losers. The most hands I've ever had one one person is 25k, so this certainly doesn't tell us much about long term trends.

The average BB/100 of 6max players is roughly -5... again, at all stakes Micro - SSNL.

Full Ring is totally different. At $50 FR you see losers in the high -4's, but at $100 it dips to -2.9 or so. Another reason to stay at 6max.

[jk3a]

A really good friend of mine tells me a story yesterday about his first experience playing live 1/2 NL at the local casino. He was very excited about running his $100 buy-in up to $170. In telling me about a hand, he said that he "raised" the turn and river and his opponent called with "just a draw." In asking him further questions about the hand, I realized that he meant he "bet" the FLOP and TURN. I've played several times with him in little donkaments with our friends, and he is by far one of the worst players I've sat with.

I tell this story to help relate to the thread topic. It seems to me there are tons of players on FTP at the 200nl level with "great" preflop stats who make plays that are terrible at best. No matter how "bad" the situation gets with online poker, there will always be an overflow of players whose egos are too big to keep them from learning the game enough to be a true winner. Let's be honest, the general public is stupid. Ask anyone who works in a customer service job.

The days of PP and the idiots getting 100bb in with middle pairs and gutshots may be over, but there is still a ton of money to be made for those who are really dedicated to learning the "why" in this game.