2/4 Black Tens

[gopnik]

does everybody like hero's 3-bet on the flop?
CO 3-bet preflop and raised us on the flop in protected pot. At this point I'd have to assume we are behind.

[MacGuyV]

[ QUOTE ]
does everybody like hero's 3-bet on the flop?
CO 3-bet preflop and raised us on the flop in protected pot. At this point I'd have to assume we are behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that I do hate. If the only read we have is that of a 'decent player' I'm not putting him on overs at that point.
I also don't get why people want to bet the turn. What possible hand are we ahead of?

[curtius]

Preflop and flop I'd play the same. I think you have to bet/fold the turn though. CO probably has AK and didn't like the flush draw hitting.

If your turn bet is not raised, I'd hope the river checked through.

The river raise is not so good I think. Based on your read, you may have SB beat, but I think AK pays off here...or SB has the flush.

[GrahamW]

I think I might have capped the PF action, since you admitted that the SB is bad and might be a big donator, and especially since MP2 is weak and goes too far.

I like the flop 3-bet.

The turn check in my opinion is fine, it'd be really hard to call a bet there. Any flush draws got there, someone might have hit an ace, leaving you (realistically) a one outer - Td.

I think the river raise is good based on your reads. The SB, from your description, sounds just like he's too damn greedy to NOT bet this river based on the turn action. Your raise also will do well to shut out MP2 and the CO. They're going to have to have a REAL hand to call your raise here.

I'd be interested in seeing the final results.

[psuasskicker]

CO 3-bet preflop and raised us on the flop in protected pot. At this point I'd have to assume we are behind.

Why's that? I'll make that raise with a hand like AK or 88 a lot of the time. Hero could easily have a hand like AQ or something else that we beat that we're protecting our hand, or trying to buy a free river card. I think this is a standard 3 bet, and I make it regularly.

That said, if I'm CO with QQ, I'm four betting or raising the turn every time. Usually 4 betting.

I also don't get why people want to bet the turn. What possible hand are we ahead of?

Cause if you're the CO TAG with QQ, how comfortable are you calling down after that turn, especially if you don't have Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? Hero will get a lot of better hands to fold there.

- C -

[silkyslim]

im playin too many tables to think about the other streets but i LOVE the river play

[MacGuyV]

[ QUOTE ]
CO 3-bet preflop and raised us on the flop in protected pot. At this point I'd have to assume we are behind.

Why's that? I'll make that raise with a hand like AK or 88 a lot of the time. Hero could easily have a hand like AQ or something else that we beat that we're protecting our hand, or trying to buy a free river card. I think this is a standard 3 bet, and I make it regularly.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is probably a leak if you're regularly raising a bettor and a caller with overcards.
Why would you donk AQ UI into the PF 3bettor?

I also don't get why people want to bet the turn. What possible hand are we ahead of?

[ QUOTE ]

Cause if you're the CO TAG with QQ, how comfortable are you calling down after that turn, especially if you don't have Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? Hero will get a lot of better hands to fold there.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you think there's a good chance he has QQ why are you 3betting the flop? Since he didn't 4bet the flop isn't he more likely to have AK now? Don't most people call this turn w/ QQ putting you in the same [censored] spot on the river?
If you really want to make a play at the pot I'd rather C/R, otherwise a C/F seems best.
I like the river raise upon 2nd glance.

[psuasskicker]

Why would you donk AQ UI into the PF 3bettor?

First off let me be clear by saying I'm not saying I would. I'm saying lots of people do.

Secondly, you do it for exactly what happened...your by the PFRR and get your hand protected when he raises. I wouldn't do it. I think it's stupid and doesn't really protect the hand. But I see lots of people that do.

I also think you're underestimating the chances that CO will raise that bet with a hand like AK to try to drive players out and buy a free river look. Especially if he has A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

If you think there's a good chance he has QQ why are you 3betting the flop?

You shouldn't automatically assume he has QQ when he raises. The problem is, when he just calls your three bet and the Ace hits on the turn, now one of two things is going on...
1) He probably didn't like that Ace so much.
2) He probably loved it and has improved to a better hand.

Bet and fold to a raise by CO. Pot is very big now and worth winning. Not a big deal bet-folding. But you're narrowing CO's hand range, and that Ace should help you clear things up quickly.

You're looking at the hand in a vacuum after it's been played out. Look at it action by action and think through at each point in time what's going on or could be going on.
- You get a standard continuation raise on the flop bet.
- You three-bet and he just calls which means he can't feel overly comfortable about his hand.
- The Ace on the turn gives you the ability to represent that you don't care about it via betting, and could now scare a better hand out.
- His turn call of a bet indicates he can't be comfortable about his hand and you might move him off it. His raise on the turn says you're beat, time to lay it down.

- C -

[Fat Nicky]

I understand and agree why you think a turn bet is the correct play.

But, based on the way the hand played out, I don't think you specified what your play is at the river??? (if you did, i apologize)

[psuasskicker]

But, based on the way the hand played out, I don't think you specified what your play is at the river??? (if you did, i apologize)

Call.

- C -