I feel like a fish calling this river..

[Big Folder]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the Replies Big_Folder, and everyone else.
I don't really have many reads at the micro-levels because I'm not playing with the same players for more than 200-300 hands at a time. I notice rather quickly who the loosey goosey's are and who never plays a hand. Beyond that they all play similar.

Thanks everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

200-300 hands is plenty to get poker tracker reads, but what you can get within even a couple of hands is the persons general demeanor. Like i said, if you see a guy limp with AK, flop TPTK and call down all the way he's passive. If you see someone seeing turns and rivers with any pair he's loose. If someone slowplays the flop and c/r the turn you have a decent read on him already.

Looking at specific hands people play can give you a decent read within 5-10 hands if you see their showdowns enough.

[Joga Bonito]

I re-formatted my computer and just took a 3 month break from playing. I am getting a new reg-code for Poker Tracker but I ussually just take a look at the instant HH and if something is out of line I will make a note on them. I am missing Poker Tracker though, that's forsure.

So I suppose I mis-lead you in saying I don't put much information into reads, I do note when people play out of line, or "wrong" in my opinion.

[Befolder]

[ QUOTE ]
My reasoning for only calling the flop was that I assumed I had the best hand w/ TPTK, so I wanted the original raiser to continue his aggression, I felt like the flop was safe enough to let another card come.

Is this flawed? It seems to work very well for the most part.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is nothing wrong with your line OP. You make more by nailing them on the turn than forcing their fold early or getting only an extra SB on the flop.

Occasionally, they will have flopped two pair, but most donks are just betting because they have an ace.

Edit: The long run is the only one that counts and in that, we'll have the best hand here more than 50% on the turn (not considering this turn action)

If it's a known TAG, then the turn raise is less advised.

[Joga Bonito]

You're the first person to say this. It is how I feel, I can't say that from now one I am not going to use this line. In Micro Limits A-x loves to call down and my AK is very strong. That's why in this spot I played it the way I did..
In the long run.. which is all that matters.. I feel like playing it this way a certain amount of the time based on flop texture is the right move.

[Befolder]

[ QUOTE ]
You're the first person to say this. It is how I feel, I can't say that from now one I am not going to use this line. In Micro Limits A-x loves to call down and my AK is very strong. That's why in this spot I played it the way I did..
In the long run.. which is all that matters.. I feel like playing it this way a certain amount of the time based on flop texture is the right move.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was surprised that more didn't Joga. The reponses may have been more varied if you cut off the action after the villain donked the turn again and before you raised. I bet a lot more people would have been fine with it.

Villains did your line on me a ton when I was still donking around and I hated it, but they were right to.

Another decent play if you have a villain who bluffs a lot, but will fold if you raise is just to call every bet to the river, sometimes raising the river. You'll get the most out of those types. A turn raise is usually good for your regular donk who will still call you down after that.

[Big Folder]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My reasoning for only calling the flop was that I assumed I had the best hand w/ TPTK, so I wanted the original raiser to continue his aggression, I felt like the flop was safe enough to let another card come.

Is this flawed? It seems to work very well for the most part.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is nothing wrong with your line OP. You make more by nailing them on the turn than forcing their fold early or getting only an extra SB on the flop.

Occasionally, they will have flopped two pair, but most donks are just betting because they have an ace.

Edit: The long run is the only one that counts and in that, we'll have the best hand here more than 50% on the turn (not considering this turn action)

If it's a known TAG, then the turn raise is less advised.

[/ QUOTE ]

so would you advocate waiting for the turn when you flop a set or a solid two pair which has even greater chances to win?

If you have a strong edge this is precisely why we should raise the flop. People are more likely to call a flop raise and continue on in the turn in bigger pots and we are pushing value. Furthermore, you need to punish the people who have already called in spots like this. We don't want someone with 5 outs calling the flop for 1 bet, we should be charging them.

[Befolder]

Sometimes I miss something important about the hand. Bigfolder made me look back at the full history.

I assumed we had this heads up on the flop. Since we don't, absolutely raise it there.

If it were heads up, I'd say the same as before.

Bigfolder, in the case of HU, which I now realize we weren't, we make more from most villains by waiting for the turn since they act before us here. It's villain dependent, but a lot of them will double barrel right into us.

My win rate went much higher after I learned to wait a street in a lot of HU situations.

[Low Limit Loser]

I only wanted to look at 4 parts of the OP initially

1) 14.70 BB
2) Heads-Up
3) Hero has TPTK
4) Only needs to call 1 bet

I now know that folding is NOT an option. Let me look and see if raising is.

Hmmmm - No raise.

Guess I only have one choice.

That is all.

LLL

[Big Folder]

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I miss something important about the hand. Bigfolder made me look back at the full history.

I assumed we had this heads up on the flop. Since we don't, absolutely raise it there.

If it were heads up, I'd say the same as before.

Bigfolder, in the case of HU, which I now realize we weren't, we make more from most villains by waiting for the turn since they act before us here. It's villain dependent, but a lot of them will double barrel right into us.

My win rate went much higher after I learned to wait a street in a lot of HU situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

fair enough. i haven't thought about this much since 3/6 live never leads itself to HU on the flop. However, i think this all depends on reads. If he's loose and will call down if you raise the turn then this move makes sense. The key also is that he's aggressive enough to fire again on the turn. If he doesn't bet and folds to your bet you lost a SB. If he does bet, you raise and he folds you gained 1SB, but if you simply raised on the flop he might be compelled to call your turn bet. Thus you start gaining bets on the turn and river.

[bung]

200-300 hands should be enough to give you a read on at least some of the players. How does the table play in general? If they play the same, what did some of the players showdown once they 3-bet the turn?

Raise flop and play your TP fast. If bet into on the turn, if the player is is overly aggressive, call and raise the river.