Pooh Bah Post: Picking Off Bluffs...

[suzzer99]

Hmmmmm. On the first hand, I would be pretty torn too. Obviously I'd like a read here, but your logic is sound. It's just that sooooo many times these dudes slowplay then try to catch up on the river with a monster. At the levels I play (inlcluding a lot of $119 6-mans), a river big bet on a busted draw like this is often a bluff. But a river pot-overbet in general is often a monster (obv not in this case or you wouldn't be posting it).

2nd hand, I dunno. I don't see a button limp-shove like that often enough to judge one way or the other. It's certainly got to be a monster some of the time.

Anyway, very nice post that I'm still digesting. IMO you are one of the more solid heavy posters going on STTF and I always listen to your advice.

[MikeMcQ1]

Congrats on Pooh Bah J-Bird! A definite asset to the forum, with lots of well thought out advice and explanation (in all your posts). A rarity around these here parts.

I'm in agreement with most of the others about the bluff call. It's not something you simply look at and see "OMG...big river overbet...You're Full of [censored]!!!"

I see this betting pattern a lot: call, small bet, small bet, big bet. And more often than not, it's a poorly played big hand.

Hand two seems like an easy call to me. 99 would be much harder for some reason.

Please post in my hands more! Pleasepleasepleaseplease!

[JSH06]

[ QUOTE ]
Congrats on Pooh Bah J-Bird! A definite asset to the forum, with lots of well thought out advice and explanation (in all your posts). A rarity around these here parts.

I'm in agreement with most of the others about the bluff call. It's not something you simply look at and see "OMG...big river overbet...You're Full of [censored]!!!"

I see this betting pattern a lot: call, small bet, small bet, big bet. And more often than not, it's a poorly played big hand.

Hand two seems like an easy call to me. 99 would be much harder for some reason.

Please post in my hands more! Pleasepleasepleaseplease!



[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I think I overdid it a little bit in the first hand. I think I said something about it being "an obvious bluff", which clearly isn't the case. I do believe that it's a bluff more often than not though, at least in the 6 mans.

If you want me to reply to your hands more just IM them to me!

Anyways, it's been nice talking to you.

[Burno]

Congrats on both Poohbah and your location, both are worth of commendation.

Good post, lots of this is stuff I've been opening my eyes to more lately.


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No one really recommends limping big hands after limpers.

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DS has and does, and before he traded his playing cards for scrabble tiles PP did too.

Granted, I doubt they'd endorse it in an online SNG, but early in a MTT or in a cash game it can be a terrific play, especially if you haven't been opening much/and or the game is aggressive.

[Green Kool Aid]

Congrats on pooh-bah. Your advice is always much appreciated.

My response is a grunch:

Hand 1- I would LOL if he had 34hh. I think this spot is quite read dependent, but I do agree that KQ or missed hearts will show up a lot here.

Hand 2- 22-77 like 90 percent of the time. NH.

[futuredoc85]

nice post, i like hand 1 but it has to be read-dependent pretty heavily at a 9-man, but i think one of the reasons people have trouble beating a table w/ 3+ other regs is b/c they are missing a lot of EV by not adjusting their game in spots where they find themselves at a shorthanded table relatively deep. Hand 2 i agree w/ GKA NH. I always like the hands you post and they have actually helped me play substantially better 3-6 handed.

[JSH06]

[ QUOTE ]
Congrats on both Poohbah and your location, both are worth of commendation.

Good post, lots of this is stuff I've been opening my eyes to more lately.


[ QUOTE ]
No one really recommends limping big hands after limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

DS has and does, and before he traded his playing cards for scrabble tiles PP did too.

Granted, I doubt they'd endorse it in an online SNG, but early in a MTT or in a cash game it can be a terrific play, especially if you haven't been opening much/and or the game is aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I'm talking more in a SNG here obv. I think there are times where over limping big pairs can be a good play in an MTT or cash game, but even those times are rare. I'm glad you liked my location. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It has everything to do with my avatar. I know MikeyMcQ didn't realize what my avatar was. Well, that explains it. And no, I don't really drink with 6 year olds. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Sparta45]

Congrats on the Pooh-bah Hub......I hope you continue to post around here because your posts are definitely +EV

In terms of your picking off bluffs....I know what you're saying and I agree with you to some extent. I wouldn't have put a percent on the frequency because really it's entirely read dependent.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your point isn't so much that 75% of the time it's a bluff or 33% of the time it's a bluff.....your point is that you need to 1) piece together the puzzle from the flop on....2)combine that with your knowledge of how your opponent plays.....3)determine if there is a strong chance he's bluffing.....then 4) if you determine he is bluffing, having the balls to call off your stack with 3rd button.

[ger664]

Congrats on your new well deserved status.

Point 2 I agree with totally.

Point 1. Is very read dependent. I would not have the balls to call here without a note that villian did this before, and I would not call to get that note either.

[Inyaface]

Nice post.
The problem with 1 is that you can't value bet/fake value bluff if your villan since stack is only about pot. Almost any hand you check call with on the flop you should check push. If you check call you should almost always check the river unless your value betting super thin with some sort of jack good kicker hand. As for the call, a lot of bad players think ZOMG he showed some weakness and I missed my draw so I'll shove my missed draw without realizing they can get snap called a lot by any pair. As you play more and get better you will get a better feel for when/who bluffs these blank rivers and you will pick up on certain timing tells that are constant among a lot of players.

For the 2nd this is a super easy call. Nobody limps behind limpers with a big hand, especially in late position. If someone raised and the button just called I might be more inclined to fold but would almost always still call with 1010+ and probably wider.