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#11
11-30-2006, 05:55 PM
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Re: No deals at Bally\'s MTT?
[ QUOTE ]
Harrah's floors claim to do the W2G thing because when they bought Binion's they inherited the IRS agreement that came with it which requires this. Not sure I buy that, though. But anytime a Harrah's floor-person tells this tale, they also add "and I'll bet you within 6mo every casino is doing W2G's because it's required by regulations and they're breaking the law by not doing it". Well, they've been saying that for about 12mo so they woulda lost their bets. No reasonable person can read the regs and come to the conclusion W2G's are required in any Vegas daily MTT. [/ QUOTE ] Everyone used to follow the Binion's closing agreement, then in the early 00s (is that an expression) places quit following it. If a place intends to have large touranmetns (such as the WSOP) I would think the Binion's closing agreement is a good deal. For places that do not have large touranmetns they would be better not following the closing agreement. 
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#12
11-30-2006, 06:01 PM
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Re: No deals at Bally\'s MTT?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Harrah's floors claim to do the W2G thing because when they bought Binion's they inherited the IRS agreement that came with it which requires this. Not sure I buy that, though. But anytime a Harrah's floor-person tells this tale, they also add "and I'll bet you within 6mo every casino is doing W2G's because it's required by regulations and they're breaking the law by not doing it". Well, they've been saying that for about 12mo so they woulda lost their bets. No reasonable person can read the regs and come to the conclusion W2G's are required in any Vegas daily MTT. [/ QUOTE ] Everyone used to follow the Binion's closing agreement, then in the early 00s (is that an expression) places quit following it. If a place intends to have large touranmetns (such as the WSOP) I would think the Binion's closing agreement is a good deal. For places that do not have large touranmetns they would be better not following the closing agreement. [/ QUOTE ] But even if they choose to follow the Binion's agreement, that doesn't mean that they can't allow the players to chop and issue W2Gs appropriate to the chop.
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#13
11-30-2006, 06:05 PM
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Re: No deals at Bally\'s MTT?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Harrah's floors claim to do the W2G thing because when they bought Binion's they inherited the IRS agreement that came with it which requires this. Not sure I buy that, though. But anytime a Harrah's floor-person tells this tale, they also add "and I'll bet you within 6mo every casino is doing W2G's because it's required by regulations and they're breaking the law by not doing it". Well, they've been saying that for about 12mo so they woulda lost their bets. No reasonable person can read the regs and come to the conclusion W2G's are required in any Vegas daily MTT. [/ QUOTE ] Everyone used to follow the Binion's closing agreement, then in the early 00s (is that an expression) places quit following it. If a place intends to have large touranmetns (such as the WSOP) I would think the Binion's closing agreement is a good deal. For places that do not have large touranmetns they would be better not following the closing agreement. [/ QUOTE ] But even if they choose to follow the Binion's agreement, that doesn't mean that they can't allow the players to chop and issue W2Gs appropriate to the chop. [/ QUOTE ] That is very true. The Binoin's closing agreement calls for issueing W2-g for amounts paid out $600 and above. There is no restriciton on deal making in the closing agreement. I am guessing their is an auditor somewhere that has a problem with them modifying they payouts. I once had to deal with a cage that wouldn't give me the money for 18th place (the casino's internal controls called for the cage to hold the money) until I filled out a form telling them how the prize money was dispersed including the names of the winners for 1st-17th place.
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#14
11-30-2006, 11:03 PM
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Re: No deals at Bally\'s MTT?
The red tape can be amusing at times. First Venetian tourney I cashed in I go up to the desk to get paid and Anthony has to first get on the phone and call surveillance to tell them he's paying me (apparently so they can watch). Caesars has forms the TD has to fill out, on which they include the toke amount, with name/address/DL/SSN which you then take to the cage (with ID, AGAIN). Why they need ID to pay a $250 tourney cash I don't know. And I'm not too fond of the forms showing how much every player toked.
I like places like Sahara that just hand you cash and say "congrats" and out you walk. No ID, no forms, no redtape, and just a plain envelope into which you can stuff your toke. YeahYeah... I know... accountants and auditors like the red tape and it's all done for the players' own good. Gotta wonder how they pay off $5000 craps table bets without filling out forms and calling surveillance first.
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#15
11-30-2006, 11:27 PM
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Re: No deals at Bally\'s MTT?
[ QUOTE ]
The extremely poor deal making skills of most players is a hubge source of +EV, .... Last time, I locked up second place money ($750), in a 6 way chop, when I had 30% of the total chips. I successfully argued that 30% of the chips means I get 30% of the total prize pool. [/ QUOTE ] Not to defend the decision, but maybe management felt there were too many "bad deals" being made by sharp players taking advantage of inexperienced players ('deal making skills' vs 'poker playing skills').
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#16
11-30-2006, 11:40 PM
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Re: No deals at Bally\'s MTT?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The extremely poor deal making skills of most players is a hubge source of +EV, .... Last time, I locked up second place money ($750), in a 6 way chop, when I had 30% of the total chips. I successfully argued that 30% of the chips means I get 30% of the total prize pool. [/ QUOTE ] Not to defend the decision, but maybe management felt there were too many "bad deals" being made by sharp players taking advantage of inexperienced players ('deal making skills' vs 'poker playing skills'). [/ QUOTE ] In a casino that allows deals the casino should retain the right to reject a grossly unfair deal. I have rejected two deals in this manner. One invovled a 2+2 poster who was also a dealer in that room that was offered more than 1st palce money in a three way deal (the other two both said how much they woudl take leaving more than first). The other involved a hotel guest that has entered a satellite for an event at the WSOP without knowing what a satellite or the WSOP of poker was (she wanted to play poker and that is what was starting when she walked into the room). When it got heads up she had a little more than 90% of the chips. THe otehr player said "since you won't be here anyway, how about if I take the seat and you take the second place money?" She agreed to this, but the seat was worth $2500 and second place money was about $200. I explained to her that the seat was transferable and there were a lot of people that were willing to buy it. The local played didn't come around for close to a month and when she did she would tell anyone that would listen that I "cheated her out of her WSOP seat."
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#17
12-01-2006, 12:15 AM
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Re: No deals at Bally\'s MTT?
RR ? Not *RR* ? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#18
12-01-2006, 03:50 AM
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Re: No deals at Bally\'s MTT?
[ QUOTE ]
I like places like Sahara that just hand you cash and say "congrats" and out you walk. No ID, no forms, no redtape, and just a plain envelope into which you can stuff your toke. [/ QUOTE ] On the other hand just about everybody i know believes that money is consistently stolen out of the Sahara Tournament because of the way it is run so loosely.
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