staring into the sun 10/10 uncapped

[BluffTHIS!]

On that flop with others to act behind me I would fold. You don't want to get involved in a big pot with another draw or give better odds to such a draw to a player behind you by calling. And although the number of outs you have if clean, merits a call HU against a made hand, the lack of a pair or even more outs doesn't make it a raising hand to me unless I am sure villain will fold the bare nut flush draw to a raise. However I would raise before I called.

As played, although it is unlikely he thinks about what he is doing, his small turn bet either priced in you with a set played slow or himself for same, or was the nuts trying to lure you in but giving you too good of odds for same. Of course it could just be another medium flush that wanted to see where it stood. A minraise on the turn looks good to see where you stand and try to get a checked river and keep the pot manageable instead of being put to a bigger decision.

If he read you as weak at all then he probably was more willing to value bet thin with even a jack flush, or try to run you off with the naked ace. Another reason being OOP with draws sucks.

[Marnixvdb]

BT, I have position on the guy who is betting all the way. And on the flop, i do have a pair but i don't think it matters much at all as two pairs and sets are a big part of his calling range of my floppush. I'm only OOP vs. the other bigger stack who acts behind me on the flop. Maybe that changes your view a bit?

In this game, people generally call their draws and bet their made hands. There is not a lot of aggression with good draws as I know it from online play - even tough there is some bluffing going on obv.

I think the flop is interesting. Still undecided whether it's good to call or to raise. Raise seemed bad at the time cause the other big stack - i didn't mention this in the OP - will either call any bet, or hardly anything at all. If he has the nut-flush draw, he will call. If he calls the flop, a spade hits, and bb and me both check, he will not bluff, and if he will, it will be weak. A call gives me the chance to evaluate both player's actions on the turn and also gives me chance to hit the nuts with my straight outs. Also, if I call and the other stack pushes, he will usually have a set/two pair so I am getting the money in better than when I push myself and he calls. Online i would push or fold this on the flop, but in this game call just seemed best even though it felt akward.

I don't think a turnminraise is much good, I wasn't sure enough he wouldn't be capable of shoving this as a bluff so I would commit myself while having not much more information than on the river. If i call he can still think i was calling to fill up, or think that I wasn't to sure about my hand, don't you think?

edit: btw i originally posted this in HSNL because i thought the forum wanted some of these posts, even though i am aware that this hand is not exactly high-stakes PLO. Thanks for moving it if this place fits the discussion better.

[BluffTHIS!]

Sorry I misread the pair. I read too quick sometimes. But I do think the possibility of tangling with another draw behind you is a factor. Which is why I would rather raise then call to try to get competing draws out and be left HU with either the original bettor or someone behind you. 3 way will be a disaster.

The thing with a turn minraise or even smoothcalling, is you have to be seen doing that with the nuts too sometimes. That way they can't read your hand as easily. And also with the given stack sizes, villain *shouldn't* think that a bluff or semi-bluff reraise would have a lot of FE, which *should* lead to your being able to form a more accurate conclusion about his hand from either a call or a raise.

[wazz]

There's no point in calling the turn if you're not going to call the river. I think you're winning here, most likely he's playing the naked A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. That may be why he underbet the pot on the turn such that the river all-in is ~ PS.

I don't like flop play. Raise to push out higher flush draws, or fold.

[guilt_trip]

Pot the flop

[RoundTower]

I would call the flop like you did, sometimes I would just fold. You don't really want to make a huge pot on the flop, better to outplay him on fourth street. I think turn and river are good, he should be bluffing often enough (prob with the lone A) to make the call right.

"There's no point in calling the turn if you're not going to call the river." I disagree with this in general, you can call a small bet like this expecting he will often give up on the river. But in this particular hand you make it sound like he can be bluffing here a lot.

[Marnixvdb]

i called and he said 'un pair' and turned over AAxx with the As and MHIG.

My main reason to call was that the weak on turn / strong on river just didnt seem to make much sense if he made a flush. Also, it my hand was pretty much defined as a set or a low flush - or at least a hand that wasn't comfortable enough to raise the turn - so he should be much more likely to valuebet if he wants a call, and to shove if he wants a fold.

After the hand, i thought about what else i should be calling him with on that river, but I couldn't think of much other hands than flushes that I could have at that point in the hand.

Marnix

[RoundTower]

you should have the nuts here sometimes, nut flush (and 3 flush boards generally) is the hand I FPS more than any other.

[CrushinFelt]

Roundtower what's the problem here with potting the flop? Wuss!

[RoundTower]

[ QUOTE ]
Roundtower what's the problem here with potting the flop? Wuss!

[/ QUOTE ]
If I raise here it's all going in, I don't really want to try to play a huge pot here on the flop or get run into a really big draw behind me. Also, being results oriented for a minute, hero took the only line that ended up in the guy stacking off drawing dead.