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#11
10-24-2006, 08:58 AM
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Re: If God Gave Every Individual Human Free Will
Yes, humans are incapable of going thru life without sinning.
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#12
10-24-2006, 10:10 AM
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Re: If God Gave Every Individual Human Free Will
Its not impossible for humans to behave sinlessly. Its just given our nature its highly unlikely.
Heres a problem I have regarding the nature of God and free will. I was taught that God is omniscience, that he knows all things past, present, and future. I was also taught that God can do all things and that when God created man, he created man with free will. Suppose I were to meet God in a room that contains nothing other than a bowl of ice cream, our persons, and a spoon. Now suppose God said to me that He would reveal one to me the outcome of any future event I inquired about. I inquire to God wether or not I will willingly eat that bowl of ice cream. If God says that I will eat the bowl of ice cream can I now choose not to? If I choose not to eat the bowl of ice cream does that mean that God is not omnisceince and/or cannot do all things? Assume I know God will not lie to me. Stu
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#13
10-24-2006, 10:15 AM
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Re: If God Gave Every Individual Human Free Will
He doesn't need to. Omniscience isn't about knowing one future, it's about knowing every possible future and knowing what future is more probable.
The very fact that there is only one possible branch of unfolding probably keeps it interesting for him.
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#14
10-24-2006, 10:39 AM
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Re: If God Gave Every Individual Human Free Will
[ QUOTE ]
If it is beyond the capacity of a human to behave sinlessly [/ QUOTE ] There are many issue and difficulties with free will. However, there was One who did live sinlessly. I believe that Christ vindicates the perfection of human nature as created by God. In the New Testament He is sometimes referred to as the "second Adam". There are several reasons for this, but one is surely because He not only passed the test Adam failed, but passed many more of nearly infinitely greater difficulty.
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#15
10-24-2006, 10:51 AM
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Re: If God Gave Every Individual Human Free Will
[ QUOTE ]
He doesn't need to. Omniscience isn't about knowing one future, it's about knowing every possible future and knowing what future is more probable. The very fact that there is only one possible branch of unfolding probably keeps it interesting for him. [/ QUOTE ] So what you're saying is that God really doesn't know wether or not I will eat that bowl of ice cream. You and I have a different understanding of the nature of God. Stu
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#16
10-24-2006, 10:56 AM
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Re: If God Gave Every Individual Human Free Will
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] He doesn't need to. Omniscience isn't about knowing one future, it's about knowing every possible future and knowing what future is more probable. The very fact that there is only one possible branch of unfolding probably keeps it interesting for him. [/ QUOTE ] So what you're saying is that God really doesn't know wether or not I will eat that bowl of ice cream. You and I have a different understanding of the nature of God. Stu [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps. He knows that you will or will not eat it. He doesn't know the particular decision you will take at that juncture. And he knows the results and what the next juncture will be. How else is free will going to be a valid condition?
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#17
10-24-2006, 10:56 AM
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Re: If God Gave Every Individual Human Free Will
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If God Gave Every Individual Human Free Will then how is it they every one, including those not yet born, must necessarily deserve to go to hell? [/ QUOTE ] Because you inherited it from your parents. Just like you end up with certain traits that cause you to look like your parents or grandparents, you received their sinful nature as well. [ QUOTE ] If it is beyond the capacity of a human to behave sinlessly or however would be necessary to get into heaven without a "pardon", then humans don't have free will. [/ QUOTE ] You have both the ability to reject God and the ability to come to Him through the voluntary sacrifice of Jesus. [/ QUOTE ] Why would god even bother creating something that necessarily deserved eternal damnation?
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#18
10-24-2006, 10:59 AM
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Don\'t encourage him
[ QUOTE ]
This doesn't mean that I believe God never plays favorites and doesn't give some men more chances (greater grace) to be saved, but just that He gives all some minimal chance. [/ QUOTE ] OK, you just gave him cause for at least three new threads.
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#19
10-24-2006, 11:01 AM
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Re: If God Gave Every Individual Human Free Will
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If God Gave Every Individual Human Free Will then how is it they every one, including those not yet born, must necessarily deserve to go to hell? [/ QUOTE ] Because you inherited it from your parents. Just like you end up with certain traits that cause you to look like your parents or grandparents, you received their sinful nature as well. [ QUOTE ] If it is beyond the capacity of a human to behave sinlessly or however would be necessary to get into heaven without a "pardon", then humans don't have free will. [/ QUOTE ] You have both the ability to reject God and the ability to come to Him through the voluntary sacrifice of Jesus. [/ QUOTE ] Why would god even bother creating something that necessarily deserved eternal damnation? [/ QUOTE ] The original state of Man was not one that deserved eternal damnation.
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#20
10-24-2006, 11:10 AM
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Re: If God Gave Every Individual Human Free Will
[ QUOTE ]
Because you inherited it from your parents. Just like you end up with certain traits that cause you to look like your parents or grandparents, you received their sinful nature as well. [/ QUOTE ] this is one of the things that I cannot see as possibly being just... and I see no way of reconciling it. this god seems like a moran
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