1/2 JTs multiway - Page 2

henkeee · #11 10-07-2006, 05:29 PM

Hero calls the turn.

River: 2 (?)
BB checks, one of the other guys bets. Hero calls and win.

OziBattler · #12 10-07-2006, 05:57 PM

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My grunch,

TJs is a drawing hand for me. So I'd prefer about 3 limpers in if I'm going to raise that. Not a terrible move really, you just missed the flop this time I think.

I'd hate it, but I would call river and fold the River UI without better notes on BB villian and what conditions he donks.

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if you call the turn (and I would) then dont fold TP on the river for 1 bet. With small sample size and the nice big pot folding for 1 bet on the river is a mistake IMHO.

Aaron W. · #13 10-07-2006, 07:47 PM

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I know its has been said don't fold when it's close

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Lots of things have been said. I don't really agree with this philosophy. When it's close, look for other factors to help you to decide. If it's still close, then it's going to be close and it doesn't matter what you do. Follow your gut (and afterwards, review the hand to make adjustments to how your gut reacts to things).

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but if we have 0-4 outs, we have implied odds to call when we have 4 outs only.

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If we have outs... that's a big if. If we're ahead, we win this pot on the order of 80% of the time. It's a 10 BB pot we're facing, plus probably an extra bet or two on the river. How often are we ahead? What if that number is only 15% of the time (and let's pretend we're drawing dead otherwise). We'll assume that 2 villains put in one bet on the river and so do we.

EV of calling: (15% * 80% * 12 BB) + (15% * 20% * -1 BB) + (85% * -1 BB) = 1.44 - 0.03 - 0.85 = .56 BB

How often do we need to have the best hand in order to break even here? It turns out to be 5/52 = 9.6% of the time. Are we ahead at least 10% of the time? I think so (15% was my initial guess). Plus we usually have some outs if behind...

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The over callers or the bettor could easily have Q-AT. That gives 18 hands that are reasonable holdings that have us beat not including the random hands that the BB could have that have us drawing slim.

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The bettor could easily have JT, T9, and T8s since he's calling from BB. He might even have T4s and called expecting to get a nice multiway pot with a suited hand. The callers could have a lot of crap, and that's fine by me. A3, K7o, J9s...

I think folding is a decent-sized mistake.

Chrysiptera · #14 10-07-2006, 08:25 PM

PF: I would call with this hand..

Flop: I disagree with everyone.. I'd raise here. You get to see if BB 3-bets, and you make UTG+2 and MP1 call 1 or even 2 bets. Also you might get yourself a free card on the turn.. Could you guys go into more why you disagree here?

turn: with two callers and a 7BB pot, I'd find a fold here..

Absolution · #15 10-07-2006, 08:43 PM

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PF: I would call with this hand..

Flop: I disagree with everyone.. I'd raise here. You get to see if BB 3-bets, and you make UTG+2 and MP1 call 1 or even 2 bets. Also you might get yourself a free card on the turn.. Could you guys go into more why you disagree here?

turn: with two callers and a 7BB pot, I'd find a fold here..

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The pot is so big on the flop and you don't know where you are. You're hand is mariginal and vulnerable so you would like to protect, but a raise here doesn't do that. I'd wait for the turn if I was going to raise. You don't want a free card because you're not drawing to anything. You want to protect if you have the best hand.

OziBattler · #16 10-07-2006, 08:43 PM

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turn: with two callers and a 7BB pot, I'd find a fold here..

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BB 25/14/0.8 36 hands (main villain)
UTG+2 71/2
MP1 56/21
MP2 18/8

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Normally these overcalls might be a problem but with these villians I think that the callers could have anything and probably have very very weak holdings. dont be scared of them.

Scary_Tiger · #17 10-07-2006, 08:51 PM

rofl at not raising the flop.

You guys have me in tears for wanting to fold the turn.

lol

lol

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

CrMenace · #18 10-07-2006, 09:10 PM

*grunch*

Raise preflop is good.

Raising turn also doesn't do much. You should call again here and call a safe river.

DrModern · #19 10-07-2006, 09:12 PM

I'm with Scary_Tiger.

Raise the flop for protection.

CrMenace · #20 10-07-2006, 09:17 PM

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I'm with Scary_Tiger.

Raise the flop for protection.

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You can't protect anything here. Unless BB raises, you're facing the field with 14.5:1 odds to call. That justifies calling almost anything.

If you're raising, it has to be for value here.