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#11
08-17-2006, 06:29 PM
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Re: Too Passive?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Too passive. That's a hand protection checkraise against a button who should be betting anything. [/ QUOTE ] This is exactly why I would never 3bet the flop nor raise the turn with this holding. Becuz the villain is likely to be weak given the dynamics of this situation. I believe there is more money to be made by playing this hand meekly and making sure a big bet goes in on the subsequent streets. I think this is a classic situation where a passive line will make/save more money than an aggressive value line against this particular opponent, becuz he is too likely to have a weak hand that may fold to pressure. I dont want him to fold. I want him to bet the turn and river, or bet the turn and check/call the river. Thats the outcome im looking for in this situation. [/ QUOTE ] Weak will often mean 3-5 outs and people call down far too much online. [/ QUOTE ] In this small pot, I want this guy taking his 3-5 outer to the river. Naturally if I had a read that this tag was a showdown monkey I would consider a more aggressive line. Generally speaking, when a tag checkraises in this spot, it just screams weak hand, which is why I would not make a move here. 
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#12
08-17-2006, 06:40 PM
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Re: Too Passive?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Too passive. That's a hand protection checkraise against a button who should be betting anything. [/ QUOTE ] This is exactly why I would never 3bet the flop nor raise the turn with this holding. Becuz the villain is likely to be weak given the dynamics of this situation. I believe there is more money to be made by playing this hand meekly and making sure a big bet goes in on the subsequent streets. I think this is a classic situation where a passive line will make/save more money than an aggressive value line against this particular opponent, becuz he is too likely to have a weak hand that may fold to pressure. I dont want him to fold. I want him to bet the turn and river, or bet the turn and check/call the river. Thats the outcome im looking for in this situation. [/ QUOTE ] Weak will often mean 3-5 outs and people call down far too much online. [/ QUOTE ] In this small pot, I want this guy taking his 3-5 outer to the river. Naturally if I had a read that this tag was a showdown monkey I would consider a more aggressive line. Generally speaking, when a tag checkraises in this spot, it just screams weak hand, which is why I would not make a move here. [/ QUOTE ] Is the pot really that small?--5.5 BBs when he bets the turn. If you raise, he's getting 7.5 to 1.
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#13
08-17-2006, 06:44 PM
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Re: Too Passive?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Too passive. That's a hand protection checkraise against a button who should be betting anything. [/ QUOTE ] This is exactly why I would never 3bet the flop nor raise the turn with this holding. Becuz the villain is likely to be weak given the dynamics of this situation. I believe there is more money to be made by playing this hand meekly and making sure a big bet goes in on the subsequent streets. I think this is a classic situation where a passive line will make/save more money than an aggressive value line against this particular opponent, becuz he is too likely to have a weak hand that may fold to pressure. I dont want him to fold. I want him to bet the turn and river, or bet the turn and check/call the river. Thats the outcome im looking for in this situation. [/ QUOTE ] Weak will often mean 3-5 outs and people call down far too much online. [/ QUOTE ] In this small pot, I want this guy taking his 3-5 outer to the river. Naturally if I had a read that this tag was a showdown monkey I would consider a more aggressive line. Generally speaking, when a tag checkraises in this spot, it just screams weak hand, which is why I would not make a move here. [/ QUOTE ] Is the pot really that small?--5.5 BBs when he bets the turn. If you raise, he's getting 7.5 to 1. [/ QUOTE ] If we give this guy an average of 4 outs, I dont want to raise the turn unless I am positive he will incorrectly call. I would much rather him incorrectly bet the turn with this hand, and incorrectly bet the river or check/call the river cuz he doesnt realize I have the nuts.
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#14
08-17-2006, 06:48 PM
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Re: Too Passive?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Too passive. That's a hand protection checkraise against a button who should be betting anything. [/ QUOTE ] This is exactly why I would never 3bet the flop nor raise the turn with this holding. Becuz the villain is likely to be weak given the dynamics of this situation. I believe there is more money to be made by playing this hand meekly and making sure a big bet goes in on the subsequent streets. I think this is a classic situation where a passive line will make/save more money than an aggressive value line against this particular opponent, becuz he is too likely to have a weak hand that may fold to pressure. I dont want him to fold. I want him to bet the turn and river, or bet the turn and check/call the river. Thats the outcome im looking for in this situation. [/ QUOTE ] Weak will often mean 3-5 outs and people call down far too much online. [/ QUOTE ] In this small pot, I want this guy taking his 3-5 outer to the river. Naturally if I had a read that this tag was a showdown monkey I would consider a more aggressive line. Generally speaking, when a tag checkraises in this spot, it just screams weak hand, which is why I would not make a move here. [/ QUOTE ] Is the pot really that small?--5.5 BBs when he bets the turn. If you raise, he's getting 7.5 to 1. [/ QUOTE ] If we give this guy an average of 4 outs, I dont want to raise the turn unless I am positive he will incorrectly call. I would much rather him incorrectly bet the turn with this hand, and incorrectly bet the river or check/call the river cuz he doesnt realize I have the nuts. [/ QUOTE ] Whatever, don't raise. God knows people love to play correctly on Party.
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#15
08-17-2006, 06:49 PM
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Re: Too Passive?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Too passive. That's a hand protection checkraise against a button who should be betting anything. [/ QUOTE ] This is exactly why I would never 3bet the flop nor raise the turn with this holding. Becuz the villain is likely to be weak given the dynamics of this situation. I believe there is more money to be made by playing this hand meekly and making sure a big bet goes in on the subsequent streets. I think this is a classic situation where a passive line will make/save more money than an aggressive value line against this particular opponent, becuz he is too likely to have a weak hand that may fold to pressure. I dont want him to fold. I want him to bet the turn and river, or bet the turn and check/call the river. Thats the outcome im looking for in this situation. [/ QUOTE ] Weak will often mean 3-5 outs and people call down far too much online. [/ QUOTE ] Against any of the terrible players I would ahve raised the flop or turn. But BB was decent and I think he will make a proper fold to aggression in those instances when he is drawing thin (I think he has 2-5 outs when he is behind), but will continue to bet and at least check-call the river if I remain passive. I do think BB has some kind of made hand when he check-raises the flop against this particular field of loose players and not a draw. Also, there is some chance I am behind here. I think the decision is somewhat close here, which is why I posted. Against a typical donk, I definitely find a raise somewhere.
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#16
08-17-2006, 06:58 PM
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Re: Too Passive?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Too passive. That's a hand protection checkraise against a button who should be betting anything. [/ QUOTE ] This is exactly why I would never 3bet the flop nor raise the turn with this holding. Becuz the villain is likely to be weak given the dynamics of this situation. I believe there is more money to be made by playing this hand meekly and making sure a big bet goes in on the subsequent streets. I think this is a classic situation where a passive line will make/save more money than an aggressive value line against this particular opponent, becuz he is too likely to have a weak hand that may fold to pressure. I dont want him to fold. I want him to bet the turn and river, or bet the turn and check/call the river. Thats the outcome im looking for in this situation. [/ QUOTE ] Weak will often mean 3-5 outs and people call down far too much online. [/ QUOTE ] Against any of the terrible players I would ahve raised the flop or turn. But BB was decent and I think he will make a proper fold to aggression in those instances when he is drawing thin (I think he has 2-5 outs when he is behind), but will continue to bet and at least check-call the river if I remain passive. I do think BB has some kind of made hand when he check-raises the flop against this particular field of loose players and not a draw. Also, there is some chance I am behind here. I think the decision is somewhat close here, which is why I posted. Against a typical donk, I definitely find a raise somewhere. [/ QUOTE ] Perfect.
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#18
08-18-2006, 07:52 AM
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Re: Too Passive?
did you think about raising preflop in an unopened pot with a good hand on the button??
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#19
08-18-2006, 08:22 AM
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Re: Too Passive?
[ QUOTE ]
did you think about raising preflop in an unopened pot with a good hand on the button?? [/ QUOTE ] There were 3 guy in the pot...
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#20
08-19-2006, 12:25 PM
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Re: Too Passive?
[ QUOTE ]
I believe there is more money to be made by playing this hand meekly and making sure a big bet goes in on the subsequent streets. [/ QUOTE ] Raising the turn is correct in this case. Especially if Villain will (incorrectly) fold a 5-out draw.
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