God I Hate Flat-Callers

[uclabruinz]

Villain's likely holdings at this point:

We're ahead of Jx and KQ.

We're behind J2, T2, JT and 98.

I doubt he's holding anything else.

I think I go into check/call mode so that Jx doesn't fold and we minimize the damage against all the hands that are beating us. If he bets the turn I probably call. If we check to him and he bets the river again we have to give serious thought to folding, as I think Jx at that point is almost always checking behind.

EDIT: Villain could also be holding 22. I don't think 77, TT, or JJ are very likely, although there's a small chance.

[seke2]

Paul,

Why can't Villain have some sort of halfway decent ten or worse jack based on the flop action? SB doesn't need a jack to bet the flop with nobody raising preflop. And he'd probably call a turn bet with worse jacks and possibly with strong tens too.

I think I bet 2.5k and call a push, but not happilly. Check/call is also not too bad here, but I'd call anything in that case, including a push.

[Quanah Parker]

Hindsight is 20-20, but with a raise preflop you might have avoided this sticky situation.
As played you can't narrow his range too much, other than discounting pocket 10s, and JJs. Pocket 2s, J-10, 8-9, Q-9, QK, Jx, 10x, etc. are all very possible holdings.
c/f or bet 1/3 pot. cuss and fold to re-raise.

[seke2]

[ QUOTE ]
Being results oriented is 20-20, but with a raise preflop you might have avoided this sticky situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Preflop is fine with me. You're OOP so if you're gonna raise, you need to make it a big one. Why risk creating a big pot with AJo OOP? Completing/limping from the blinds is perfectly fine here.

[uclabruinz]

Calling preflop here is standard for me.

Dan, I would classify a "halfway decent ten" as possible but not that likely. A worse jack is very possible, as I said.

I don't know, I kind of just want to get to showdown here. I doubt we get a drawing hand to fold the turn and a hand that we're beating might fold. I think checking the turn and making a smallish bet on the river may be the way to go.

Meh, these spots give me fits.

[adanthar]

very routine c/c or b/f, IMO (flip a coin)

if you decide to c/c, c/something a blank.

[Art Vandelay]

I'm with ucla, I'm heading into check/call mode here. I'd love it if villian pushed here, because I think that a push is much more likely a weaker J or something else that doesn't want to get called than a hand that beats us.

Thanks for posting these two hands (I read the second one first). Both are great for a post flop donk like me.

[uclabruinz]

adanthar,

If villain checks behind on the turn is a small river value/blocking bet appropriate (assuming a blank river)? Obviously we fold to a raise.

[seke2]

I'm surprised by anyone who would bet/fold. This is essentially TPTK in a blind vs. blind situation. I mean, as BB, I probably call the SB's flop bet with almost any ten just to see what he does on the turn.

[Foucault]

[ QUOTE ]
Hindsight is 20-20, but with a raise preflop you might have avoided this sticky situation.
As played you can't narrow his range too much, other than discounting pocket 10s, and JJs. Pocket 2s, J-10, 8-9, Q-9, QK, Jx, 10x, etc. are all very possible holdings.
c/f or bet 1/3 pot. cuss and fold to re-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a terrible spot to raise PF. There had not been much limping at the table, and I don't AJ is ahead of the limper's range, at least not by enough to make up for being out of position. And once I raise, I don't have many options post-flop.