Israel's Attack on Lebanon and Hezbollah

[FlFishOn]

[ QUOTE ]
And the Jews can do it. The Jewish Mafia has been able to maintain a strong foothold in the diamond, publishing & media industries in the U.S., while remaining under the radar.

The only time I can remember the Jewish Mafia being portrayed on T.V., is in the weekly show Hill Street Blues, and then, they were just one of several different gangs assembled at the station house and had no lines. Just two Jews, sitting amongst the Irish, Italian, Puerto Rican Mobs.

All we need to do, is fail to support Israel 100% and the Jewish Mob in the U.S. can rain havoc in the U.S. unlike any terrorist organization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone else see this as 'ignore' motivation? I admit I do it in very rare cases and mostly for noise reduction purposes but this is whack.

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
As the news reports, Israel in response to Hezbollah attacks on Israeli soil has attacked not only Hezbollah positions, but also the Beirut international airport. Of course Lebanon is protesting mightlily and spouting threats of retaliation that it can't back up.

Lebanon purports to be a sovereign country, and of course only recently has rid itself of Syrian troops. But it cannot maintain that Israel's attacks are wrong when it fails to act against Hezbollah itself. When Israel invaded in 1982 it was during the middle of the Lebanese civil war when there wasn't an effective central government. But now there is. So that means they are responsible for attacks launched from their soil.

If they tacitly support such attacks on Israel, then of course they have to expect to pay the price. But even if they don't, it is their responsibility to deal with stopping those attacks and if they are unable or unwilling, then again they have to expect Israeli reprisals. And that is going to include the logistical pipeline Hezbollah uses which includes the airport.

So either Lebanon needs to take responsiblity if it supports the Hezbollah attacks on Israel, or take action against Hezbollah itself to stop them. And if it lacks the military means to do so, then then Israel is going to do it for them, with more loss of civilian lives than if the Lebanese government took responsiblity for setting its own house in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is dumb that Hizb Allah decided to get involved in this. While I sympathise with their desire to take a stand on the disgraceful plight of the Palestinians in Gaza and unresolved grivances with Israel, they are simply giving Israel justification to take the fight to them knowing that Lebanese civilians will suffer for it.

Never fear about Israel losing an opportunity to jump down from the moral high ground though. As usual it responds with utterly disproportionate force to the kidnapping and killing of a hand full of Israeli soldiers by launching attacks that have already killed 30 or so Lebanese civilians , promises to destroy Lebanese cvilian infrastructure, bomb Lebanon back decades and so on. No surprises there.

The problem with insisting that the Lebanese governemnt clean house is that Lebanon does not have a political system comparable to the typical nation state. It's government and politics consists of numerous ethno-clientelist groups that don't represent any sort of political project or majoritarian popular will, whose purpose is more to give official posts to representatives of various groups rather than carry out serious political projects; it is made up of a finely balanced mixture of community-based parties, and the government going after Hizb Allah would be perceived as some of these groups going after/interfering in the affairs of another one. They neither have the will nor the means to forcibly disarm Hizb Allah, and I doubt other regional players would permit such action anyway. At any rate, it is not the Lebanese government that Israel will make suffer for this, but Lebanese civilians.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And the Jews can do it. The Jewish Mafia has been able to maintain a strong foothold in the diamond, publishing & media industries in the U.S., while remaining under the radar.

The only time I can remember the Jewish Mafia being portrayed on T.V., is in the weekly show Hill Street Blues, and then, they were just one of several different gangs assembled at the station house and had no lines. Just two Jews, sitting amongst the Irish, Italian, Puerto Rican Mobs.

All we need to do, is fail to support Israel 100% and the Jewish Mob in the U.S. can rain havoc in the U.S. unlike any terrorist organization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone else see this as 'ignore' motivation? I admit I do it in very rare cases and mostly for noise reduction purposes but this is whack.

[/ QUOTE ]

2p2 needs a note function similar to the poker sites, so I could cite "Tainted Rogue -- anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist donk". Then I wouldn't have to remember this stuff. I haven't ever ignored anyone here.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As the news reports, Israel in response to Hezbollah attacks on Israeli soil has attacked not only Hezbollah positions, but also the Beirut international airport. Of course Lebanon is protesting mightlily and spouting threats of retaliation that it can't back up.

Lebanon purports to be a sovereign country, and of course only recently has rid itself of Syrian troops. But it cannot maintain that Israel's attacks are wrong when it fails to act against Hezbollah itself. When Israel invaded in 1982 it was during the middle of the Lebanese civil war when there wasn't an effective central government. But now there is. So that means they are responsible for attacks launched from their soil.

If they tacitly support such attacks on Israel, then of course they have to expect to pay the price. But even if they don't, it is their responsibility to deal with stopping those attacks and if they are unable or unwilling, then again they have to expect Israeli reprisals. And that is going to include the logistical pipeline Hezbollah uses which includes the airport.

So either Lebanon needs to take responsiblity if it supports the Hezbollah attacks on Israel, or take action against Hezbollah itself to stop them. And if it lacks the military means to do so, then then Israel is going to do it for them, with more loss of civilian lives than if the Lebanese government took responsiblity for setting its own house in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is dumb that Hizb Allah decided to get involved in this. While I sympathise with their desire to take a stand on the disgraceful plight of the Palestinians in Gaza and unresolved grivances with Israel, they are simply giving Israel justification to take the fight to them knowing that Lebanese civilians will suffer for it.

Never fear about Israel losing an opportunity to jump down from the moral high ground though. As usual it responds with utterly disproportionate force to the kidnapping and killing of a hand full of Israeli soldiers by launching attacks that have already killed 30 or so Lebanese civilians , promises to destroy Lebanese cvilian infrastructure, bomb Lebanon back decades and so on. No surprises there.

The problem with insisting that the Lebanese governemnt clean house is that Lebanon does not have a political system comparable to the typical nation state. It's government and politics consists of numerous ethno-clientelist groups that don't represent any sort of political project or majoritarian popular will, whose purpose is more to give official posts to representatives of various groups rather than carry out serious political projects; it is made up of a finely balanced mixture of community-based parties, and the government going after Hizb Allah would be perceived as some of these groups going after/interfering in the affairs of another one. They neither have the will nor the means to forcibly disarm Hizb Allah, and I doubt other regional players would permit such action anyway. At any rate, it is not the Lebanese government that Israel will make suffer for this, but Lebanese civilians.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dumb? How about criminal? Anyway what should Israel's response be? I'm guessing that you'll point out Israel's past trangressions and such. Not sure about the circumstances of the Palestinian prisoners whose release is being sought. I will say that Israel's response is being condemned by many governments and leaders. That's not new though and thus would hardly deter Israel at this point. Looks like those in Israel that were against the withdrawl in Gaza have scored political points big time in Israel. The roadmap to peace seems like a pipe dream at this point but could be convinced otherwise.

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
Dumb? How about criminal?

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps so. I don;t know that I'd qualify attacks on military targets as criminal, but it was the wrong thing to do, for sure.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing that you'll point out Israel's past trangressions and such.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, seeing as you're inviting me... certainly Hizb Allah is not the only actor in its conflict with Israel to have acted criminally. Israel's criminal actions don;t justify those of Hizballah though, nor vice-versa.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway what should Israel's response be?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really care what their response should be, more what about what reasonable limits they should be constrained by. Responding to a fairly minor incursion against military targets with a massive invasion, blockading the entire country, destroying civilian infrastructure, making threats of mass collective punishment, killing 30 civilians within 24 hours of the capture etc clearly goes far beyond any proportionate or humane limits of action.

[niss]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And the Jews can do it. The Jewish Mafia has been able to maintain a strong foothold in the diamond, publishing & media industries in the U.S., while remaining under the radar.

The only time I can remember the Jewish Mafia being portrayed on T.V., is in the weekly show Hill Street Blues, and then, they were just one of several different gangs assembled at the station house and had no lines. Just two Jews, sitting amongst the Irish, Italian, Puerto Rican Mobs.

All we need to do, is fail to support Israel 100% and the Jewish Mob in the U.S. can rain havoc in the U.S. unlike any terrorist organization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone else see this as 'ignore' motivation? I admit I do it in very rare cases and mostly for noise reduction purposes but this is whack.

[/ QUOTE ]

2p2 needs a note function similar to the poker sites, so I could cite "Tainted Rogue -- anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist donk". Then I wouldn't have to remember this stuff. I haven't ever ignored anyone here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, Tainted Rogue is right. I am a member of what we Jews call the "Cosa Nosh-tra". While I am happy to be involved planning both Jewish domination of the media and our global search for loose change, I really go for the bagels and lox.

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And the Jews can do it. The Jewish Mafia has been able to maintain a strong foothold in the diamond, publishing & media industries in the U.S., while remaining under the radar.

The only time I can remember the Jewish Mafia being portrayed on T.V., is in the weekly show Hill Street Blues, and then, they were just one of several different gangs assembled at the station house and had no lines. Just two Jews, sitting amongst the Irish, Italian, Puerto Rican Mobs.

All we need to do, is fail to support Israel 100% and the Jewish Mob in the U.S. can rain havoc in the U.S. unlike any terrorist organization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone else see this as 'ignore' motivation? I admit I do it in very rare cases and mostly for noise reduction purposes but this is whack.

[/ QUOTE ]

2p2 needs a note function similar to the poker sites, so I could cite "Tainted Rogue -- anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist donk". Then I wouldn't have to remember this stuff. I haven't ever ignored anyone here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me neither. Normally I force myself not to as it seems an easy way out of dealing with opposing points of view, however dumb. But his posts in this thread take the biscuit.

[EagleHasLanded]

Afghanistan was mainly run by the Taliban which supported the terrorist organizatoin Al Queda. After 9/11 we go in with overwhelming support and replace the government by force.

Lebanon is heavily influenced (if not run by) Hezbollah which is a terrorist organization itself. So since they only attack Israel and no other country we should not try to replace the government and get rid of terrorists.

Grrrreeeaaat Logic

[jokerthief]

[ QUOTE ]
It is dumb that Hizb Allah decided to get involved in this.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not dumb at all. Hezbollah is nothing but a proxy force for Iran and Syria. Now the upcoming G8 summit will be diverted from talking about Iran's nuclear program to this conflict. Syria benefits by Israel destabilizing Lebanon's government too. This is a way for them to reassert control over Lebanon by intimidation. Since they don't have their military in Lebanon anymore they have to use their proxy army to provoke Israel into striking Lebanon. Lebanon is powerless to do anything about Hezbollah or Israel's attacks on their own so Syria has a way to hold them hostage and can impose their influence.

[TaintedRogue]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really care what their response should be, more what about what reasonable limits they should be constrained by. Responding to a fairly minor incursion against military targets with a massive invasion, blockading the entire country, destroying civilian infrastructure, making threats of mass collective punishment, killing 30 civilians within 24 hours of the capture etc clearly goes far beyond any proportionate or humane limits of action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares? Look man, there is some damn nice waterfront property on both sides of the border. Let them wipe each other out and we'll seize the territory and grab some nice waterfront property for winter vacationing on the cheap.