Party $5/10 -- QJs

[chesspain]

Colgin,

You said that given the flop action, you were going to raise the turn. Do you think that MP2 was bet-3betting that flop with air?

[tsrcess]

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q,j suited or not is a HUGE trap hand.

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I am not sure what you mean exactly by "HUGE trap hand". It is not like I limp-reraised here. There is a differnece between a huge hand pre-flop and a playbale, +EV one. QJs is definitely playable here.

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looks pretty, but, i believe should only be played in late position with lots of callers (or, maybe in late position as a raise with few callers) (or, maybe out of the blinds with lots of callers , or, out of the blinds as a raise with few callers)....

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You are too tight.

[/ QUOTE ]i think (again) one HAS to remember this is small stakes. i've said before, and i'll say again.....one can not play too tight at small stakes. you're opponents WON'T notice well enough & adapt....i assure you...if the goal of playing poker is money won.......at small stakes tighten up and you will win more......don't even think about playing hands like q,j UNLESS the conditions are right....

[chesspain]

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One can not play too tight at small stakes...if the goal of playing poker is money won.......at small stakes tighten up and you will win more...i've said before, and i'll say again.....

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Maybe you should just stop saying it, because it's not correct...and you should (re?)read SSHE.

[tsrcess]

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One can not play too tight at small stakes...if the goal of playing poker is money won.......at small stakes tighten up and you will win more...i've said before, and i'll say again.....

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Maybe you should just stop saying it, because it's not correct...and you should (re?)read SSHE.

[/ QUOTE ]lol.....i think i'll say it 'till i get bored. those that listen will benefit sshe notwithstanding...

[SixForty]

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don't even think about playing hands like q,j UNLESS the conditions are right....

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This is absolutely true..... for every single poker hand you will ever be dealt. Don't even think about playing AA UNLESS the conditions are right.

That being said, having good conditions to play QJs is much more common than some people may think. In the types of games I play, it's rare for me to fold this hand preflop.

[Jiggymike]

IMO, QJs is a very skill and read-based hand. If you have a tight, tough table, limping with it from EP is potentially dangerous; either raise to clear the field or just fold it. Also if you do not think your post-flop skills are quite good enough to play this hand in marginal situations (ie not hitting a big hand/draw on flop) then get rid of it. However at a table full of weak players I would certainly recommend limping with it, encouraging more weak hands to come in behind you and increase your chance of a large pot if you do make the flush or straight. In this situation with a table of donks, I limp just about all the time, raising once in a while to disguise the hand, but I would probably never fold because it should be a +EV hand in this particular spot.

On the flop, I would have bet and hoped for a raise from MP2. Check raising the person to your left can buy you a free card but here you are hoping to protect your hand, which a bet-call-call-raise won't accomplish. The way it played out, I c/r the turn because now you don't mind the callers, you're likely well ahead at this point although people may have picked up straight draw, which you should make them pay 2 bets to chase. Then bet river, A is always a little scary when people play any A but its still a value bet.

[Mister Z]

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q,j suited or not is a HUGE trap hand.

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Dude you are focusing on the LEAST most important decision of this hand.

[naMruM]

Grunch.

Flop screams out "protect me", so lead out there. Were you to lead and MP2 then did raise, I would favor a turn c-r on any undercard to your jack or if you improved (which you did).

As it played out, I say fine.

[Haupt_234]

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i think (again) one HAS to remember this is small stakes. i've said before, and i'll say again.....one can not play too tight at small stakes.

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Judging by all of your posts, your V$PIP has to be 8 or less.

Haupt_234

[Jake (The Snake)]

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Bet out on the flop, everything else looks good.

Haupt_234

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I posted this hand mostly because of the flop decision. I think this is a tough decision between betting out and going for the check-raise.

I have good relative position to the PF raiser in terms of check-raising the field. However, my hand is not that strong (and is, in fact , vulnerable) and my pot equity may not be that high.

However, if I bet out then likely MP just calls when he has something like overcards, thus making the pot 10+ SBs to the BB and the limper; or, he raises and isolates me when I am behind.

Since I doubt I can protect my hand on the turn given the pot size and my position, I tend to favor check raising the field and try to exploit my presumed, but silm, pot equity advantage. Plus, if MP2 three-bets me and everyone is trapoed for mutliple bets, a) I hjave a good sense ofwhere I am and can play the rest of the hand accordingly, and b) I have the pot padded which benefits my presumed 5 out (plus weak backdoor staright) draw.

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I think many readers here could do well to think more about "betting into the PFR hoping he raises". The bolded part above is very important imo. Generally, betting into the PFR will let the PFR play the hand perfectly, calling when behind and raising when ahead.

In order to bet into a PFR hoping he raises, you need to know that the PFR will raise with a worse hand than yours. This is often not the case. If it is never the case, then you would prefer that villain just calls your bet since you are always behind when he raises.

The problem with checking the flop in this case, though, is that there is a very real chance you will give up a free card. There is no guarantee the PFR bets again especially with this board and 4 players.