timing tells and a hand

[milesdyson]

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On which street did you pick up on the timing tell and what was your thought process in interpreting it? Also I really like your call on the river (even though this may seem results oriented) because obviously the 5 didn't help his hand unless he's on Q5 off or 95o and if he'd hit a draw with 78 I should think he'd try to check raise and so in his mind the only way to win is to bluff at the pot. Again I'd like to hear where the timing tell was in the hand.

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when he check raised the turn he waited the perfect amount of time. it felt like he was going to fold and then clicked raise. with the 2nd club falling i thought it was pretty likely he had a flush draw. when he donked that river, i was just like, o rly? if the river card were a club or a T/J i would have folded.

[waffle]

hand 1 - if you didn't believe him, why not call and call again? it seems like the most profitable line to take.

related - does anyone try to defend against others getting timing tells on you? whenever i don't get action with a monster i'm afraid i leaked too much info w/ timing.

[waffle]

lol, i don't think i've ever pulled off a screwplay bluff w/ success after opening in the sb.

[milesdyson]

waffle,

calling and calling never gives him the chance to fold. all these times these guys are folding to my turn 3-bets, they're making pretty massive mistakes (just about guaranteed based on my cards). also just calling down gives them no chance to fold a better hand - i know it doesnt happen often but its still another benefit to 3betting the turn.

of course my other option in the 88 hand is to just call down, but i choose to call down on the turn basically. i dont think there are many people who have the sack to bluff cap me after i 3-bet like this so im not too worried about getting outplayed. his river lead was unexpected and retarded on that card, so i called it.

[waffle]

ya, true. somehow i've started playing with a mental shorthand that my FE = 0 when these donks put a lot of action in. i guess i should cut that out.

[Jake (The Snake)]

miles,

what are your basic thoughts on timing tells now? does long pause = strength, quick = weakness in general? is there more to it?

at the moment i don't use timing tells much at all simply because they could mean so many things. but i do believe they exist. i think maybe we need to consider them opponent-specific like we do everything else instead of over-generalizing? idk, just some thoughts.

[SharpObject]

the real question of this thread should be: How the hell did you get people to fold on Absolute?

The only reliable timing tell, is the think for a long time raise, by a bad player, which usually means a monster. But I've seen some good players give the false timing tells also.

[Ineedaride2]

That's why I like my shittay satellite internet connection. Pauses between plays for me are anywhere between 1 and 4 seconds, and there's nothing I can do about it.

But it helps throw people off when they're guess what I'm trying to do.

[That Fish]

Don't be seduced by the dark side of the force Miles. Once you become a LAG, you will forever become a slave to the dark side.

Seriously though, I think you've discovered why LAG's play the way they do, and why they can last in the game longer than you think they should.

It would be interesting to find out if this truly is a long term +EV play. Most of these look like you need a 25% success rate or so.

Maybe the timing tell is enough, but I think the semibluff 3bet with the OESD/FD definitely + timing tell definitely has merit.

I guess you need the parlay of finding players that can bluff/semibluff raise/fold turns, AND have that indecision timing tell. If you are able to make that read, one can argue you either need to move up or add another table.

[bobhalford]

I have a timing tell. It's when the pot has been raised preflop and I whiff on a flop checkraise. The turn comes a blank (or semi-blank) and I bet immediately. If I didn't have anything, I wouldn't be auto-betting the turn.

Also, I find that when someone bets and is raised, a quick 3-bet almost always means a very strong hand.

I think my own timing tells (excluding the first example) are non-existent, since I'm playing several 6-max games at once, I can pause for several seconds with a monster hand as well as act quickly with one. I often wonder if any of my opponents are reading into these "tells" which don't exist.