Getting Outplayed

[Chimichonga]

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For whatever it's worth I'd play the same way in HE. I'll almost call with anything from the big blind if opener comes in for a 2X raise if he has chips in HE or Omaha. Implied odds dictate my play in these spots.

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I think this is a big mistake. Obviously, there are fundamental differences between Omaha and HE. In HE, your implied odds with random junk tend to be larger than in Omaha, specifically because hand values are much more disparate in HE.

Take 2 hands: HE you have 2-7. Omaha you have 2-2-7-7. Both are pretty crappy.

Now you are in the SB and get the same flop of 10-7-7.

In HE, you might get a big pay day with the flop from a wide range of hands, including overpairs, straight draws, flush draws etc.

In Omaha, you are going to get a big pay day on this flop from exactly 1 hand T-T-x-x.

Now, in the above example, you have flopped quads, which isn't going to happen. Often, when you hit, you will hit flops like the one you did, where you have the temp nuts and no way to protect it without exposing your entire stack. This is where the reverse implied odds come into play.

Now, we haven't even examined the pot-limit vs no-limit aspect, which certainly needs to be taken into acount and has very tangible implications for this issue.

[Chimichonga]

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Oh, and fold pre-flop.

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I thought this was a joke, I would never fold this either.


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It was and it wasn't. I would play this hand in that position on a lot of tables, but there are valid reasons for not playing it.

[joewatch]

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Oh, and fold pre-flop.

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I thought this was a joke, I would never fold this either.


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It was and it wasn't. I would play this hand in that position on a lot of tables, but there are valid reasons for not playing it.

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Sure, this is a position dependent hand. It plays horribly in early position, but gains value when there are fewer players, which only know if you are in late position or the blinds.

[Hattifnatt]

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Perhaps this is a leak of mine, but there isn't a hand in the world that I'll fold for another $5 when I'm getting 7 to 1 BTF in pot limit or no limit from the small blind.

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You call with 2222? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[bruce]

Very funny!!!

Bruce

[bruce]

The more I think about this the more correct I think you are.
I had never quite looked at Omaha from this perspective. My background is primarily holdem and I had never looked at starting hand values from your above perspective. Your logic makes perfect sense to me. Thanks.

Bruce

[blopp]

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Perhaps this is a leak of mine, but there isn't a hand in the world that I'll fold for another $5 when I'm getting 7 to 1 BTF in pot limit or no limit from the small blind.

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You call with 2222? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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Tank you Hatifnatt, really nice one.

[RoundTower]

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Perhaps this is a leak of mine, but there isn't a hand in the world that I'll fold for another $5 when I'm getting 7 to 1 BTF in pot limit or no limit from the small blind.

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You call with 2222? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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Obviously to win a huge pot when the flop comes A34 and everyone misses their draws.

[Troll_Inc]

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Perhaps this is a leak of mine, but there isn't a hand in the world that I'll fold for another $5 when I'm getting 7 to 1 BTF in pot limit or no limit from the small blind.

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Do yourself a favor and buy Pokertracker. Play or load up a whole bunch of hands and then you'll see that playing hands in the SB with this mindset is akin to rolling down your car window and throwing wads of cash out.

[ProfessorJC]

If you check call the flop and weak lead the turn, you can call his turn raise and represent the boat on the river.

Playing so straightforwardly out of position without redraws is not good.

1/2 pot blocking bet on the river is the standard way out of this mess. Hard for him to raise even a low house because you might have the big boat here after calling the turn.

If you really want to be ballsy, check raise the river. If he's made a boat it's probably a low one and he may lay it down. If you do that and it fails, you'll probably get the money back in later action if you try a similar play with the nuts.