AQ makes 2 pair and then gets checkraised

[milesdyson]

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QQ makes sense for BB, as well as AK (which gives him TPTK on the turn explaining his aggression, although capping is still suspicious), and the latter has simply much larger probability of happening

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BB called preflop. neither of these hands belong in his range.

to everyone else,
i have no idea wtf is going on with this "donk bet" issue. tc donked the flop, yes, even with top pair. and clearly there IS donking on the flop. all you have to do is press the bet button.

anyway, actual content: the turn is close because in order to 3-bet you have to be able to put him on hands that you beat and that take this action. A2 and A3 you beat. AQ you split with. i dont think this player would play Q3 or Q2 here. but 54s, most likely. 22 and 33? for sure. so you really only beat a couple aces up hands and you lose or split with everything else. its probably pretty close but calling down seems best.

[Marquis]

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There's no donking on the flop.

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Why?

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That term doesn't apply to the flop.

[milesdyson]

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The thing about a 1.2 AF is that it looks less than it is when villian has a vpip of 44 -- this combo suggest villian is quite aggressive. So it seems he could play like this with AK. I think you have him here. I might lead the river as well and just call raise. Slightly higher EV and higher variance play. I can't fault the way you played this hand though -- it's slightly suboptimal IMO but certainly not horrible.

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i think he likely went too many bets by 3-betting the turn.

anyway he's in position so he cant lead the river. and if you're suggesting raising, i think that is very bad.

i think most 44/8 guys would cap AK preflop anyway. but even if you could add that to his range (and assume that he caps the turn with one pair (no one does this)), it doesnt put us ahead of much more on the river.

44/8/1.2 does not indicate much about his aggression really. i would say this is about average to below average. even if he were 44/8/2 after this many hands, i still think raising the river would be nasty.

[btspider]

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There's no donking on the flop.

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Why?

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That term doesn't apply to the flop.

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sure it does. its just rarely used unless HU.

i'd prob just check-donk the flop and go from there.

[milesdyson]

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There's no donking on the flop.

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Why?

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That term doesn't apply to the flop.

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where do people get these rules? it definitely applies to the flop, and the flop is the most common place for the donk bet to occur.

how often do you see this action?

limp, you raise, folds, limper calls.

limper bets xyz flop.

what do you think this is called?

[Gregatron]

Q2, Q3, 32, A2, and A3 are all in this guy's range. AK is also quite likely, as poor players play really randomly like that. 44/8 players typically defend thier blinds like retards. That is why I lead the river and call a raise. If he raises the river I might get enough wiff of a set. (I would certainly not advocate a CR or a 3 bet there -- that would be complete spew.)

EDIT: I thought about it more -- I check call the river. Reason: if you get raised you are likely beat, and if you ahead he is calling anyhow. This is not getting checked through. So I take it back -- check call.

[Gregatron]

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Interesting. So you actually think I missed a value bet? If anything I was more concerned that the turn 3bet was spew.

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The 3 bet was certainly not spew IMO, but I have recended my opinion on leading the river -- I check call (see my reply to Miles).

[Marquis]

When that term first started being used, before the name of it changed, it generally applied to the turn or river after having check called the previous streets. At least that's the way I remember it. I doubt that when it was coined it was in reference to a flop bet.

[milesdyson]

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Q2, Q3, 32, A2, and A3 are all in this guy's range. AK is also quite likely, as poor players play really randomly like that. 44/8 players typically defend thier blinds like retards. That is why I lead the river and call a raise. If he raises the river I might get enough wiff of a set. (I would certainly not advocate a CR or a 3 bet there -- that would be complete spew.)

EDIT: I thought about it more -- I check call the river. Reason: if you get raised you are likely beat, and if you ahead he is calling anyhow. This is not getting checked through. So I take it back -- check call.

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like i said earlier, we're in position. our decision is between raise and call.

[Shillx]

No way you can raise this river. I know I would end up 3-betting the turn too. Also the flop bet doesn't make much sense.