25/50 live, weak combo draw, reverse implied odds, etc.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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I call turn for sure, and I also fold the flop

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[dlpnyc21]

i was the villain in the hand--and i had 89dd. i think i should have just full-potted the turn, or even overbet it--from the villain's perspective, he was v. lucky that I didn't check fold the river, I actually went ahead and value bet it for him, thinking he might call me with an 8 somehow (pretty bad thinking). i think calling the turn isn't bad because I could have a set and be block betting or bluffing or something, but i think most of the time i will just chk fold the river if the flush hits and sometimes your flush will be no good. if you don't flush up--are you calling the river? if the board pairs, are you calling a bet? if the board pairs, are you bluff-shoving over a bet? if the flush comes and i shove, are you calling?

i think i agree that folding flop might be best in these types of scenarios, but your hand just looks so damn pretty [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

[ceczar]

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i was the villain in the hand--and i had 89dd. i think i should have just full-potted the turn, or even overbet it--from the villain's perspective, he was v. lucky that I didn't check fold the river, I actually went ahead and value bet it for him, thinking he might call me with an 8 somehow (pretty bad thinking).

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this is terrible thinking. i have a set or an 8 the vast majority of the time when i call this turn. you absolutely have to bet this river. i never have a naked FD, and would likely raise the FD that contains the 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the turn.
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i think calling the turn isn't bad because I could have a set and be block betting or bluffing or something, but i think most of the time i will just chk fold the river if the flush hits and sometimes your flush will be no good.


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you checking the river most of the time is the only way to make me calling the turn close to correct (see my previous comment)
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if you don't flush up--are you calling the river? if the board pairs, are you calling a bet? if the board pairs, are you bluff-shoving over a bet? if the flush comes and i shove, are you calling?

i think i agree that folding flop might be best in these types of scenarios, but your hand just looks so damn pretty [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

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now that i've decided i should fold the 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] turn because of reverse implied odds, i agree that i should just go ahead and fold the flop for the same reasons. my 2pair/trips draw is useless, my idiot gutter is useless, and there are reasonable odds my flush draw is just as bad.

you got unlucky i had a hand that looked good enough to enable me to get there, but you absolutely have to bet this river as i will have an 8 or a set the majority of the time, and will pay you off at least some of the time, surely more often than i have the flush. maybe betting slightly smaller on the river would be better for this reason