KK vs. BeL0WaB0Ve - Page 2

shaundeeb · #11 12-20-2006, 10:32 PM

I call and shove any turn.

0evg0 · #12 12-20-2006, 10:36 PM

there are some horrible answers here

no offense to you, but i'll single you out fsoyars:

[ QUOTE ]
only heard that he's laggy. so are you saying you don't think he'd make this play with only a draw or top pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

first - he is more agressive than most others. this is not because he just randomly decides to reraise hands. he is one of the best players online for a reason. randomly raising JTs here, while being in line with something a maniacally agressive player would do, does not fall in line with something a great player would do. get it?

anyway, folding is gross and calling leaves the turn retarded so its a shove

shaundeeb · #13 12-20-2006, 10:48 PM

problem with shoving is he plays perfectly against it. That's why calling and shoving turn over his bet is far superior.

RetiredAt22 · #14 12-20-2006, 10:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
problem with shoving is he plays perfectly against it. That's why calling and shoving turn over his bet is far superior.

[/ QUOTE ]

explain his "playing perfectly against it"?

calling a shoving a turn even if its an 8 of hearts?

betgo · #15 12-20-2006, 10:56 PM

Given the opponent, I would flat call and generally get the money in on the turn regardless.

PrayingMantis · #16 12-20-2006, 10:57 PM

At the spot I felt disgusted when he made this small raise. If it was a bigger raise I would have been somewhat more ready and happy to shove. It just felt that with this specific action he has me beaten pretty badly more often than when he has some strong combo draw. But I could not fold it. I called with the plan of shoving any turn. Not sure if it's the best plan, but I saw it mentioned here (by shaun). It has some merits against an aggressive player in such spot, and all in all I believe it might have some more value against his overall range (considering also the rather small % of a pure bluff).

I kind of dislike pushing here against a very good player, although, again, it's probably not a bad option in this disgusting spot.

Anyone could really fold this? Does it make any sense?

0evg0 · #17 12-20-2006, 10:59 PM

shaun,

sometimes allowing someone to play perfectly is still the most +EV for you.

please give me EV breakdowns of shoving flop vs calling/shoving turn when he has 89h. this should help explain.

Ansky · #18 12-20-2006, 11:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
problem with shoving is he plays perfectly against it. That's why calling and shoving turn over his bet is far superior.

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing right and allowing someone to play perfect are not mutually exclusive.

The board is too draw heavy and our stack is too small to just call here.

And threads like these are just great examples of why having a LAGgy reputation is just great! PPL in this thread are just assuming belowabove is raising like complete air here into 4 ppl with these stacks like all the time or something?

a big ol' rofl at that.

PrayingMantis · #19 12-20-2006, 11:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And threads like these are just great examples of why having a LAGgy reputation is just great! PPL in this thread are just assuming belowabove is raising like complete air here into 4 ppl with these stacks like all the time or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you that it's a big mistake to think that he is raising me here with some huge random range, only because he is known to be "very aggressive". Obviously these kinds of wrong assumptions by not-too-good players lead to some juicy +EV situations for below.

wrschultz · #20 12-21-2006, 12:55 AM

I would shove here, but I think if you are a complete unknown to him, it's probably better to just call and shove the turn. I'm 100% sure BA doens't know who I am, but I would still shove here, because there are a lot of turns that I just wimp out and fold to.