let's iso the limper

[Xhad]

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Hmmm....looks like a plan.

Presumably, you raised the flop in case your opponent had OC's.

So, you would fold if 3-bet and lead a safish turn if called ?

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yeah, getting 3-bet would kinda suck, but if I fold to a 3-bet, I'm just asking to get owned next time. call it a 1BB metagame. also pulling the near-bottom runner runner 1card flush FTW would be pretty funny.

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I dislike pretty much the entire hand if this is the case.

[Buzz-cp]

Clarify?

[Xhad]

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Clarify?

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He's a pretty tight player, and you're putting yourself in a RIO situation on purpose. Then, when the one saving grace of your play (making him show strength) presents itself, you peel as a gigantic underdog with really short odds unless you count your BDFD which puts you in yet another RIO situation. I just don't think it's worth the trouble. Also, fold preflop.

[Shillx]

Boo limp. Horray beer! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Buzz-cp]

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Clarify?

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He's a pretty tight player, and you're putting yourself in a RIO situation on purpose. Then, when the one saving grace of your play (making him show strength) presents itself, you peel as a gigantic underdog with really short odds unless you count your BDFD which puts you in yet another RIO situation. I just don't think it's worth the trouble. Also, fold preflop.

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Pfr of 10 is pretty wide. My decision to c/r is based simply on the fact that I'm usually ahead of his range on this board. His stats also suggest a fit/fold mentality. I certainly am not happy about being 3bet, but check/folding turn is the most common scenario if that happens. We can't always fear a 3-bet from someone who raises preflop and then bets a given flop. Indeed my plan for most flops was to check/fold, but I thought this was a good flop for my hand and villain's range.

[aK13]

I like check/fold river.

He doesn't seem THAT tough so I'd doubt that he would ever bet as a bluff or with A high. Almost always a value bet with like 77 or something, which even then, I'd doubt he bets.

[Xhad]

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Clarify?

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He's a pretty tight player, and you're putting yourself in a RIO situation on purpose. Then, when the one saving grace of your play (making him show strength) presents itself, you peel as a gigantic underdog with really short odds unless you count your BDFD which puts you in yet another RIO situation. I just don't think it's worth the trouble. Also, fold preflop.

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Pfr of 10 is pretty wide. My decision to c/r is based simply on the fact that I'm usually ahead of his range on this board. His stats also suggest a fit/fold mentality. I certainly am not happy about being 3bet, but check/folding turn is the most common scenario if that happens. We can't always fear a 3-bet from someone who raises preflop and then bets a given flop. Indeed my plan for most flops was to check/fold, but I thought this was a good flop for my hand and villain's range.

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You really need to think about your thought process this hand. Think about these pairs of sentences together:

"I limp preflop, because the table is loose."
"This TAG raised right after me, but he might be isolating."

"I c/r the flop even given un ugly RIO situation because he plays honestly postflop."
"I'll call a 3bet for metagame."

btw 10 PFR in fullring isn't that loose, and if that sample is on 8-handed tables I question if he even pays much attention to position. Even if we put you as a coinflip on this flop, even if you get the perfect situation where he has "just" overcards and calls, you'll have no idea which turn cards beat you, which ones will make him fold if you fire again, which ones have you drawing dead and which ones give you a legitimate draw. You're losing money on the turn almost no matter what. It gets even worse if he might decide to slowplay top set, or get scared with JJ and call down, or if you hit your BDFD that you seem to care about. And you're OOP this entire time.

[BigBadBabar]

i'm not really sure how this hasn't got posted yet but can i go ahead and be the first to say...

fold preflop.

[Xhad]

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i'm not really sure how this hasn't got posted yet

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last sentence

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Buzz-cp]

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Clarify?

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He's a pretty tight player, and you're putting yourself in a RIO situation on purpose. Then, when the one saving grace of your play (making him show strength) presents itself, you peel as a gigantic underdog with really short odds unless you count your BDFD which puts you in yet another RIO situation. I just don't think it's worth the trouble. Also, fold preflop.

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Pfr of 10 is pretty wide. My decision to c/r is based simply on the fact that I'm usually ahead of his range on this board. His stats also suggest a fit/fold mentality. I certainly am not happy about being 3bet, but check/folding turn is the most common scenario if that happens. We can't always fear a 3-bet from someone who raises preflop and then bets a given flop. Indeed my plan for most flops was to check/fold, but I thought this was a good flop for my hand and villain's range.

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You really need to think about your thought process this hand. Think about these pairs of sentences together:

"I limp preflop, because the table is loose."
"This TAG raised right after me, but he might be isolating."

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Results oriented? Granted--all behind, but the TAG are loose--I wasn't clear in my OP. However, if I had posted my open limp in MP1 and had gotten 2 limpers, SB completes, BB checks, I doubt we'd see "fold preflop." I'm not folding because there's one TAG behind me that might have ATs+, AJo+, 77+...

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"I c/r the flop even given un ugly RIO situation because he plays honestly postflop."
"I'll call a 3bet for metagame."

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I'm not sure why you are putting words into my mouth? Why not simply respond, "I don't like your flop c/r, but maybe if you can fold to a 3-bet."

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btw 10 PFR in fullring isn't that loose, and if that sample is on 8-handed tables I question if he even pays much attention to position. Even if we put you as a coinflip on this flop, even if you get the perfect situation where he has "just" overcards and calls, you'll have no idea which turn cards beat you, which ones will make him fold if you fire again, which ones have you drawing dead and which ones give you a legitimate draw. You're losing money on the turn almost no matter what. It gets even worse if he might decide to slowplay top set, or get scared with JJ and call down, or if you hit your BDFD that you seem to care about. And you're OOP this entire time.

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I agree the flop is probably a coinflip, but the turn bet is not in a vacuum. Villain calling our c/r does not necessarily always have a set/overpair. We also have some idea which cards may have helped villain.