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#11
11-11-2007, 12:01 PM
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Re: JJ facing ALL IN $6.5 turbo
[ QUOTE ]
sure i mind it, JJ is weak.. what do you suggest? i dont know why you people want 2.5x BB raise with JJ someone explain? [/ QUOTE ] I don't really mind getting called with JJ because it plays pretty well postflop. Another reason I raise to 250 (or 275) is that I raise all my hands to the same amount. I prefer that bet to be as low as possible so I can cheaply dump the bottom end of my range after a push and since blinds are high I don't care about giving odds to lower pairs. I hope this makes sense. 
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#12
11-11-2007, 12:11 PM
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Re: JJ facing ALL IN $6.5 turbo
I call because of what Lion King made clear; his range definitely includes hands like 77. 2.5/3 x bb is the way to go pre flop. at 100/200 just push.
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#13
11-11-2007, 12:37 PM
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Re: JJ facing ALL IN $6.5 turbo
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] sure i mind it, JJ is weak.. what do you suggest? i dont know why you people want 2.5x BB raise with JJ someone explain? [/ QUOTE ] I don't really mind getting called with JJ because it plays pretty well postflop. Another reason I raise to 250 (or 275) is that I raise all my hands to the same amount. I prefer that bet to be as low as possible so I can cheaply dump the bottom end of my range after a push and since blinds are high I don't care about giving odds to lower pairs. I hope this makes sense. [/ QUOTE ] i dont agree 2.5x BB with JJ is not the way to play. thats too weak if you will fold to any push. a reasonable player will pick on that (IMO) beside with JJ most of the time a higher card will flop, and you will not know where you stand. but by raising to 4x BB you define your hand more and define the caller hand. raising to 2.5x BB is only good when you fold AA or KK IMO i hope more people make comment on the 2.5x BB or 4x BB preflop.
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#14
11-11-2007, 12:45 PM
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Re: JJ facing ALL IN $6.5 turbo
Lion King: Was that hand you post against OP villian ? If not it is irrelevent.
Yes most 6.50 donks shove wide and do limp call a lot but you should get into the habit of trying to figure out ranges for each villian action not sticking them in a one fit for all box. We have stats in this case we should at least attempt to use them. The reason why this is now a call as others have pointed out is that OP raise was too big thus commiting to making a call. He now only needs 36.5% equity to make a call good. Had he raised to t275 he now needs 41% equity and then has to consider what villians range is. OP Raising 4BB is not bad but your reasoning for doing so is wrong. Raising big to fold out hands that you will gain equity from long term is wrong. You can raise 4xBB with a read that a villian behind will shove wide or call no matter what the size of the raise then its okay. As you go up in levels adjusting your PF raise levels against the strength of your hand will be explioted by regulars.
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#15
11-11-2007, 12:55 PM
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Re: JJ facing ALL IN $6.5 turbo
[ QUOTE ]
I call because of what Lion King made clear; his range definitely includes hands like 77. 2.5/3 x bb is the way to go pre flop. at 100/200 just push. [/ QUOTE ] Its a neutral call against JJ+,AK.
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#17
11-11-2007, 01:26 PM
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Re: JJ facing ALL IN $6.5 turbo
[ QUOTE ]
so if i had raised to 275 then i can fold this? [/ QUOTE ] I definetly would not have been as easy a call as the orginal hand is. Workout what villians reshove ranges need to be to make a call neutral and then try to figure out if he is actually shoving wider or tighter.
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#19
11-11-2007, 01:37 PM
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Re: JJ facing ALL IN $6.5 turbo
arent you getting over 2:1 here?
if anyone *ever* folded this here, they'd be making a grave, grave error. also, arguing that hands like 77-TT/AQ/AJ are not in his range is absolutely ridiculous at this level IMO.
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#20
11-11-2007, 01:40 PM
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Re: JJ facing ALL IN $6.5 turbo
[ QUOTE ]
alright thanks for the replay. i puted him on AK and called, he shows KK and win. i seems like folding JJ isnt a good play. [/ QUOTE ] putting him on one specific hand is also a big leak, you need to work on a range and how your hand fares against that range given tournament considerations and odds and stacks. you can pretty much never narrow someones hand range without a read to one specific hand. also, even after raising to 275 I'd likely be calling here.
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