NL50 - TPTK in 3bet pot

[You're No Daisy]

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Very doubtful he's doing this with anything you beat.

One of the rareish spots I like folding TPTK in a 3bet pot.

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This looks a lot like AA here. Thoughts?

AC

[yegon]

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Bad. You were in a steal position and just called his pre-flop 3bet, so your hand is definitely underrepresented. You then flop top pair in a 3bet pot. Your pot-to-stack ratio is about 4.5-to-1: you should be happy to get it all in with TPTK.

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in my experience AK is not a very profitable hand to stack off pf with at NL50. It might be that I rarely play against good aggressive players. I table select so that I have 2-3 loose passive donks at my table all the time and they only 3bet KK, AA, some of them even coldcall with KK and wait if an A does not flop. ( my last 4 AI pf hands were my KK vs other player's AA [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

Granted it's not the case with this oponent but generally I am not comfortable 4betting AI with AK pf. Leak? Should I do it as a standard move both IP and OOP?

I don't know why but when he cbet I had a gut feeling he has a made hand and is afraid I'll draw out on him. On the turn I only beat a bluff and this does not look like one.

I might get it in on the flop but really can't expect to get called by many worse hands IMO.

[yegon]

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What kind of flop were you looking for when you called PF with AK if not this one?

Shove flop. As played, shove turn.

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I kinda try not only to look at the board but also at villain's possible holdings. What hands do call my AI on the flop? What hands do I beat on the turn?

IMO pushing flop would only be good for shania telling villain not to mess with my raises but that is meaningless at NL50.

[You're No Daisy]

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What kind of flop were you looking for when you called PF with AK if not this one?

Shove flop. As played, shove turn.

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Mike Hart's comments after the game were hilarious, but I think you're still hung over from the game [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]. Our Hero got re-raise preflop, bet into on the flop, and had the turn shoved into him. We have to look at the betting pattern and the strength of it. The only hands doing this are AA-KK and AK. I'm finding a reason to fold here.

AC

[Lego05]

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Why no KQ/various club draw semibluffs?

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Because it's doubtful he's 3betting those hands pre-flop. Especially the club draws...what club draw does he have here?


If I'd seen this guy 3bet pre-flop a few times then I'm probably making this call. But I'm not gonna include KQ and suited connectors in his range the first time he 3bets and then bets pot on flop and shoves turn.


"haven't seen him do nothing out of the ordinary so far"

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Given villian's TAG stats, three-betting a steal attempt from the button with KQ/A-decent x [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] doesn't seem like an out of line play.

If we're not willing to play for stacks on this board, we shouldn't be calling pre-flop.

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PRE-FLOP:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

77,053,680 games 0.125 secs 616,429,440 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.175% 38.86% 10.32% 29939770 7951130.50 { AsKh }
Hand 1: 50.825% 40.51% 10.32% 31211649 7951130.50 { AcAd, AcAh, AdAh, KcKd, KcKs, KdKs, QQ-TT, AcKc, AdKd, AcQc, AdQd, AhQh, AcKd, AcKs, AdKc, AdKs, AhKc, AhKd, AhKs, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, AdQc, AdQh, AdQs, AhQc, AhQd, AhQs }



FLOP
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

28,710 games 0.005 secs 5,742,000 games/sec

Board: 3c Kc 4s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 71.529% 60.95% 10.58% 17498 3038.00 { AsKh }
Hand 1: 28.471% 17.89% 10.58% 5136 3038.00 { AcAd, AcAh, AdAh, KdKs, QdQh, QdQs, QhQs, JdJh, JdJs, JhJs, ThTs, AdKd, AcQc, AdQd, AhQh, AcKd, AcKs, AdKs, AhKd, AhKs, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, AdQc, AdQh, AdQs, AhQc, AhQd, AhQs }




TURN:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

660 games 0.005 secs 132,000 games/sec

Board: 3c Kc 4s Js
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 32.121% 12.12% 20.00% 80 132.00 { AsKh }
Hand 1: 67.879% 47.88% 20.00% 316 132.00 { AcAd, AcAh, AdAh, KdKs, QhQs, JcJd, JcJh, JdJh, AdKd, AcQc, AcKd, AcKs, AdKs, AhKd, AhKs }

[Profish2285]

I really cant think of a hand villain will do this with that we beat other than air which would be QQ. Mayyybeee AQcc/AQss. I think much more often than not we are looking at a split or a loss. I also agree however that this is a push or fold on the flop. I think I call too often on these flops in situations like this, but it is probably incorrect. I think I just shove flop but by the time you get to the turn, I fold.

Note: In case my shoving flop but folding turn doesnt make sense I think of it this way. On the flop youre losing to two hands realistically, KK/AA. When you get to the turn, now youre losing to AJ if he would 3 bet that and JJ as well. The jack just makes his 3 betting range crush you so much more by that point, same thing if a queen would have came off instead.

[bsball8806]

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I really cant think of a hand villain will do this with that we beat other than air which would be QQ. Mayyybeee AQcc/AQss. I think much more often than not we are looking at a split or a loss. I also agree however that this is a push or fold on the flop. I think I call too often on these flops in situations like this, but it is probably incorrect. I think I just shove flop but by the time you get to the turn, I fold.

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I think I agree with this. No way I call the turn, but I'll shove the flop.

[ICMoney]

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I was IP so I decided to just call the 3bet. When he bet so big on the flop and on the turn it looked to me like he has no trouble with the K but he hates the flushdraws and when the second one apears he panics. Is the fold OK?

Villain was 24/16/8.5 over 50 hands - haven't seen him do nothing out of the ordinary so far

Party Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $7.61
UTG: $45.95
MP: $49.75
CO: $51.64
Hero (BTN): $68.66
SB: $59.71

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $6.50</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $4.50

Flop: ($13.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $12</font>, Hero <font color="red"> is All-In</font>

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[b]FYP

[yegon]

obv I can't fold on the flop, I have to either push or call

would anyone care to explain why pushing is more +EV than calling? If we are ahead we do not have to worry about overcards hitting, I saw mentioned several times in the forums that FDs should not worry us much in 3bet pots. So if we are ahead villain should not have many outs.

[Profish2285]

Okay that is true, but if we just call you see what can happen? The jack hits and we have and just have to give up now.