QQ 2nd pair on the flop

[Bulletproof Monk]

meh i probly peel one off given pot size

[TimovieMan]

Someone's bound to have a king with this many callers (unless they'll actually call with any pair), so your queens are probably no good.
You are getting 13-to-1, and you have a backdoor straight draw, so I'd probably call and fold the turn if I don't improve...

[LukeSLTS]

Getting 13:1 does make the call look attractive but I think having only a BDSD with a two flush on board makes this a fold. On top of the likelyhood that you hitting your straight would complete a flush draw, there is also the possibility that hitting the best out you have (Qh) would give someone else a straight. Good spot to drop. Over the last 5000 hands I have had QQ 23 times and have managed to lose over 2BB per hand, so maybe I am being a little pessimistic about QQ given my recent results.

[Reaction]

The BDSD is worth about 0 outs. It has only one redeeming quality that may bump it up to 0.25 outs.

[Blzdwrath]

Easy fold. You are up against 3 possible four opponents, chances are atleast on of them has a king, i'd put you at 2.5 outs (BDSD discounted). Not to mention people like to play things out of the BB like Kxs, so there is a chance you could even get raised by the BB who still has yet to act.

I know it sucks to hit unfavorable flops with your premium hands, but one thing people have a hard time understanding is that just b/c you hit a premium hand PF it does not entitle you to the pot, it just gives you a better chance of winning it.

[Rastadon]

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Getting 13:1 does make the call look attractive but I think having only a BDSD with a two flush on board makes this a fold. On top of the likelyhood that you hitting your straight would complete a flush draw, there is also the possibility that hitting the best out you have (Qh) would give someone else a straight. Good spot to drop. Over the last 5000 hands I have had QQ 23 times and have managed to lose over 2BB per hand, so maybe I am being a little pessimistic about QQ given my recent results.

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The ladies hate me too.

[HermannTL]

[ QUOTE ]
this will have people yelling at you for sure ... read some other posts please

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Well...let's just say that I've read a lot of other posts but with 15 pages of topics in the last two weeks there are a LOT of other posts to read. I'm here to learn and I've gotten some good advice, including your point about the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and the link a couple of posts farther down.

Speaking of that link to Ed's article, in the original thread another poster said the following:

"You should rarely be calling down with position. You need to use your position to find out where you are and to charge potential draws and to take free showdowns.

Example: You have QQ on the button and raise one early limper. The big blind, a seemingly sane player, calls. Flop is K T 8 with 2 spades. You bet and are checkraised by the big blind and the limper folds. Calling that and the turn and river is bad. The standard play is to pop him on the turn and usually take the free showdown. He could easily have a hand like AT or a multitude of draws that you need to charge him for and obviously you can release to further aggression. Why else is position so "powerful" as quoted by the pundits? "

My impression is that the biggest difference between this example and my case is that the example is HU and the riff-raff have already been cleaned out. There's only one left to have a King. Now part of my what I meant by the notorious "see where I stand" is to see who does not fold. This doesn't have the impact of a turn raise, and since most of them are already in for one bet there may be none who fold, but anyone else without a King may chuck the hand now. Maybe I should chuck it too, but I see some of you don't agree with that.

[Dankenstein]

I fold here. I don't mind raising if mp2 and mp3 folded or if it was checked to mp3 who bet, but with two callers in front of you this is a probably a fold.