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#122
04-24-2007, 06:41 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
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[ QUOTE ] Since when do people need to be part of an organized religion to be nice? [/ QUOTE ] Can someone who wants to be nice today, please explain to ApeAttack why his logic has nothing to do with what I said? [/ QUOTE ] Chez said it better than I did. 
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#124
04-24-2007, 07:26 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Since when do people need to be part of an organized religion to be nice? [/ QUOTE ] Can someone who wants to be nice today, please explain to ApeAttack why his logic has nothing to do with what I said? [/ QUOTE ] Chez said it better than I did. [/ QUOTE ] Chez believes (uniquely I think), if I understand him correctly from past posts, that one’s moral compass is innate. That one knows what is right and wrong by feeling if it is right or wrong. I believe that one’s moral compass is learned. My beliefs are a combination of my religion, my upbringing from my parents, things I picked up along the way from siblings, teachers, friends, etc. Experience is a big part of my moral compass. Non of what I have picked up along the way and chosen to retain conflicts with my basic moral compass - Christianity. That is my metric and that was my point. At any rate - I did not say that one cannot be nice and not be Christian or that atheists cannot be nice. I simply stated where I get mine from. Your post is a non sequitur to my post.
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#125
04-24-2007, 08:27 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
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the professor isn't in hell. Jesus saved all sinners, even ones who don't beleive in him. [/ QUOTE ] Even me!?!? Then whats all this fighting about? Who needs religion?
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#126
04-24-2007, 08:28 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Since when do people need to be part of an organized religion to be nice? [/ QUOTE ] Can someone who wants to be nice today, please explain to ApeAttack why his logic has nothing to do with what I said? [/ QUOTE ] Chez said it better than I did. [/ QUOTE ] Chez believes (uniquely I think), if I understand him correctly from past posts, that one’s moral compass is innate. That one knows what is right and wrong by feeling if it is right or wrong. I believe that one’s moral compass is learned. My beliefs are a combination of my religion, my upbringing from my parents, things I picked up along the way from siblings, teachers, friends, etc. Experience is a big part of my moral compass. Non of what I have picked up along the way and chosen to retain conflicts with my basic moral compass - Christianity. That is my metric and that was my point. At any rate - I did not say that one cannot be nice and not be Christian or that atheists cannot be nice. I simply stated where I get mine from. Your post is a non sequitur to my post. [/ QUOTE ] Not uniquely, not in the least. I agree with him, and I think there are several posters here who do as well. Daniel Dennett has talked about this in at least two of his books. Its not a new concept. Basically, every society on Earth, that has ever been tested, finds the same specific things moral and immoral. Its amazing really, and pretty much eliminates any possibility that morality is learned.
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#128
04-24-2007, 08:58 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Since when do people need to be part of an organized religion to be nice? [/ QUOTE ] Can someone who wants to be nice today, please explain to ApeAttack why his logic has nothing to do with what I said? [/ QUOTE ] Chez said it better than I did. [/ QUOTE ] Chez believes (uniquely I think), if I understand him correctly from past posts, that one’s moral compass is innate. That one knows what is right and wrong by feeling if it is right or wrong. I believe that one’s moral compass is learned. My beliefs are a combination of my religion, my upbringing from my parents, things I picked up along the way from siblings, teachers, friends, etc. Experience is a big part of my moral compass. Non of what I have picked up along the way and chosen to retain conflicts with my basic moral compass - Christianity. That is my metric and that was my point. At any rate - I did not say that one cannot be nice and not be Christian or that atheists cannot be nice. I simply stated where I get mine from. Your post is a non sequitur to my post. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, I didn't say what ApeAttack said. but I don't think its inate in a way that contradicts you. I claim that someone could have been exposed to much the same christian teaching as you and be as nasty as you are nice. If you accept that claim then it follows that its not christianity that is wholly responsible. I'd draw an analogy with height. Our actual height is strongly determined by nuture but people with equal nutures will reach different height because of their nature. The key factor in niceness/nastyness is empathy and it seems likely that our empathic levels are subject to genetic variation. chez
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#129
04-24-2007, 09:06 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Its a value judgement. I judge the idea of a god who would condemn this man to eternal tourment as monstrous. [/ QUOTE ] What if someone else thinks it isn't? [/ QUOTE ] That's their value judgement. Some people think marginaly less monstrous things like genecide are nice cuddly things to do as well. Its handy to know who these people are so that they can be opposed by those of us who judge them monstrous. chez
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#130
04-24-2007, 09:12 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Its a value judgement. I judge the idea of a god who would condemn this man to eternal tourment as monstrous. [/ QUOTE ] What if someone else thinks it isn't? [/ QUOTE ] That's their value judgement. Some people think marginaly less monstrous things like genecide are nice cuddly things to do as well. Its handy to know who these people are so that they can be opposed by those of us who judge them monstrous. chez [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, but ultimately? Actually, I think I'm just going to add that to the end of any argumentative post I make from now on. Its similar to the 5-year old who just keeps asking why, I suppose. Its really pretty impossible to defend against, as a tactic.
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